A while ago, I posted this thread asking how to escape from an underground creature that Swallowed me Whole then Burrowed away without leaving a tunnel and then died.
Fortunately, this is impossible.
If forced movement would move you into a space you can't occupy—because objects are in the way or because you lack the movement type needed to reach it, for example—you stop moving in the last space you can occupy.
The monster can travel through the earth with its Burrow Speed, but unless you also have a Burrow Speed (and you probably don't), the monster can't bring you along without leaving a tunnel.
You're swallowed whole and saying the creature isn't able to move you because you don't have a burrow speed?
I think they are saying that burrowing with a creature inside you has to leave a tunnel behind that the swallowed creature can move in
A while ago, I posted this thread asking how to escape from an underground creature that Swallowed me Whole then Burrowed away without leaving a tunnel and then died.
Fortunately, this is impossible.
If forced movement would move you into a space you can't occupy—because objects are in the way or because you lack the movement type needed to reach it, for example—you stop moving in the last space you can occupy.The monster can travel through the earth with its Burrow Speed, but unless you also have a Burrow Speed (and you probably don't), the monster can't bring you along without leaving a tunnel.
If you read a little further:
In all cases, the GM makes the final call if there's doubt on where forced movement can move a creature.
Ignoring this and just going with the inconsistent interpretation of "you need a burrow speed to be carried inside a burrowing creature" would also prevent things like a horned dragon flying off with an impaled creature unless they have flight too, when that is something they're designed to do.
It's pretty reasonable for a burrowing creature with swallow whole to be able to bring a creature along, but for the sake of it not being an auto-kill (... requiring two successful grapple checks, admittedly), a reasonable GM is going to give an option out, like a tunnel.
Ok, fine. A lack of Burrow Speed prohibiting being taken underground would just be silly. But you still can't occupy the underground, right? Because there are objects in the way (the ground).
I love how my level 20 Barbarian can survive the fiery breath of a gigantic ancestral dragon but still dies after a couple of minutes without air. There are real world people that can last nearly a dozen minutes...
Some rules are really ridiculous.
Tbf, Breath control is a level 1 feat and would allow the average high level barbarian to keep his breath for 25mins. That's quite a bit more than a couple.
Disease, thirst, starvation, poison, falls, etc... Most of what kills a human (old age put aside) has harder time killing a high level character. Why is there a specific case for suffocation where level has close to no impact and only a feat exists? It creates this strange situation where dispelling Water Breathing on the party is a sure way to TPK if PCs are deep in the ocean. That doesn't sound heroic at all.
Well, when you're high level enough, if you go into an inhospitable location, you ought to have countermeasures.
If you go into an elemental plane without prep and die, and if you drown into deep water, to me sounds similar.
Most players I know will just take Water Breathing to go in deep water. At rank 4 it lasts forever.
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Tbf, Breath control is a level 1 feat and would allow the average high level barbarian to keep his breath for 25mins. That's quite a bit more than a couple.Disease, thirst, starvation, poison, falls, etc... Most of what kills a human (old age put aside) has harder time killing a high level character. Why is there a specific case for suffocation where level has close to no impact and only a feat exists? It creates this strange situation where dispelling Water Breathing on the party is a sure way to TPK if PCs are deep in the ocean. That doesn't sound heroic at all.
Because you can go weeks without food, days without water, and minutes without air before dying. It's several orders of magnitude more deadly, and the rules reflect that. "Cut off their air" is one of the standard ways for killing or incapacitating otherwise invulnerable people or creatures in fiction. If it's a problem for a character, there are plenty of ways to address it. (One general feat, some ancestry feats, a few items both magical and mundane, some spells, and even a cantrip.)
Ok, fine. A lack of Burrow Speed prohibiting being taken underground would just be silly. But you still can't occupy the underground, right? Because there are objects in the way (the ground).
The creature was occupying it, and you were inside them. The creature being dead doesn't really change that scenario; you wouldn't teleport back up to the surface or something because of a collision glitch.
Most players I know will just take Water Breathing to go in deep water. At rank 4 it lasts forever.Well, when you're high level enough, if you go into an inhospitable location, you ought to have countermeasures.
If you go into an elemental plane without prep and die, and if you drown into deep water, to me sounds similar.
Yeah. And it's good for the GM and players to have an understanding about whether dispelling it is the kind of thing that's on the table. My party didn't venture underwater without a full round of backup water breathing and emergency exit options for just that reason. For a high level party, even just shoving someone in a bag of holding gives another ten minutes of air to solve the problem.
The creature was occupying it, and you were inside them. The creature being dead doesn't really change that scenario; you wouldn't teleport back up to the surface or something because of a collision glitch.
The scenario I was talking about in the original thread was as follows:
1. Monster Swallows me Whole.2. Monster Burrows underground, taking me with it.
3. I kill monster from inside.
4. How do I make it back to surface?
What I'm saying now is that #2 can't happen because I can't occupy the underground spaces. The monster must leave a tunnel, otherwise I can't be brought along.
The creature was occupying it, and you were inside them. The creature being dead doesn't really change that scenario; you wouldn't teleport back up to the surface or something because of a collision glitch.The scenario I was talking about in the original thread was as follows:
1. Monster Swallows me Whole.
2. Monster Burrows underground, taking me with it.
3. I kill monster from inside.
4. How do I make it back to surface?What I'm saying now is that #2 can't happen because I can't occupy the underground spaces. The monster must leave a tunnel, otherwise I can't be brought along.
That would be reasonable of the GM to do, sure. But the chain of "carried movement is forced movement and forced movement can only move creatures to valid squares, therefore you can't burrow with a swallowed creature" breaks down because the GM decides when the valid space rule applies. It's not a conclusive "And so my character should have been safe!"
#2 can happen depending on a GM ruling, and it's a ruling that the rules spell out for the GM to make a call on. Basically, forced movement rules are very hard to write in a way that all scenarios are covered, and GMs are given a lot of leeway so that the rules aren't a four-page chart for different situations.
Aw, man. That means the Burial rules are my only recourse if this happens.
Aw, man. That means the Burial rules are my only recourse if this happens.
Yep- that or the GM throwing some sort of lifeline. Keep in mind that a burrowing creature usually needs to either leave a tunnel to breathe, or is on the same breath clock as the character. Killing them before they surface somewhere is potentially a bad idea, in the same way that killing a giant bird that's picked you up is better done at low altitudes. Making a knowledge check or two can help in a rough situation, and gives you (the player) an option to check with the GM.