Order of rolls for concealment and attacks / Is 'targeting' official rules language

[Wren18]

I've always played "roll attack, roll concealment"

A player just rolled attack, used a hero point then rolled concealment.

If they roll concealment first, then they have more information when deciding whether or not to use a hero point on the attack.

The rules say "A creature that you're concealed from must succeed at a DC 5 flat check when targeting you with an attack, spell, or other effect."

So when does "targeting" happen? Before or after the attack roll?

[Gortle]

This is the only place I could find anything about order
Player Core pg. 434

When you target a creature that’s concealed from you, you must attempt a DC 5 flat check before you roll to determine your effect

So the answer is before.

I assume this means the order is
1) declare your action
2) determine range/areas/targets including concealment/hidden
3) make the roll

[Deriven Firelion]

I usually roll after as well. Not sure what rolling before would do. Do you still waste the attack if you don't make the DC 5? Can you not attack them at all with further attacks? That would be odd.

[thenobledrake]

"Do you still waste the attack if you don't make the DC 5?" Yes.

"Can you not attack them at all with further attacks?" There's no more reason to think that would even possibly be how it works than there is to think that if you roll a miss on your first attack you can't get any other result on attacks against that enemy.

[YuriP]

FoundryVTT PF2e Perception module also rolls the flat check before rolls the attack. If you enable its automation it will just don't roll the attack check if the flat check fails.

[shroudb]

Deriven Firelion wrote:

I usually roll after as well. Not sure what rolling before would do. Do you still waste the attack if you don't make the DC 5? Can you not attack them at all with further attacks? That would be odd.

An easy example is the OP.

Not spending a hero point on an attack roll that misses due to concealment later.

If you roll concealment first, you don't waste your hero point.

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I do agree, that as written, concealment comes when you try to target, which is before you roll the attack (but after you commit your action to it ofc).

[Conscious Meat]

Rolling the concealment check first also avoids fussing with the target's (or, potentially, others') reactions that may apply, like Nimble Dodge, and then needing to unwind those things if the concealment check is failed.

It's just more straightforward to roll the concealment check first, the result of which might itself trigger certain reactions (e.g. a Shae's counterattack has this as a specific trigger).