Spell Casting Requirements Confusion


Rules Discussion


Hey all. To back this up with some information: I'm creating my first 2e character but I'm very familiar with Pathfinder 1e. I'm trying to create a bard who is mute; she cannot talk due to vocal chord damage, but can whisper. However, she is going to be utilizing an Ocarina for a musical instrument.

I'm searching for rules on whether or not a musical instrument can be utilized for verbal components for spells. However, with the bard class there are also composition spells that use musical instruments to cast.

Can a musical instrument be utilized for spell casting in relation to the verbal components? If not, can she whisper the verbal components? If neither work, will this character concept not work? I really hope I can make this character because I've already put a lot of time, work, and love into it.


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In 2e Remaster, verbal components (along with somatic and material) are no longer a mechanical thing. Most spells have the "concentrate" and "manipulate" traits instead.

So the guiding rules are the Bard spellcasting description on p96 and the Casting Spells description on p299. Refer to them yourself to get an idea, but this caught my eye: If your character has a longterm disability that prevents or complicates them from speaking (as described in GM Core), work with the GM to determine an analogous way they cast their spells, such as tapping in code on their staff or whistling.

So I see no problem with your instrument use. The rules as written obviously want to allow for nonverbal spells as long as the player works with the GM to work it out. So I'd say check with your GM about their table rules but you should probably be good to go.


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Under the Core Rulebook rules for Cast a Spell: Whispering the verbal components for spellcasting should be fine. The targets don't need to hear or understand what you say (requiring that would be because the spell has the Auditory or Linguistic traits). Mechanically they will be able to hear something as well as see the visible manifestations of the spellcasting.

Under the Player Core rules for Casting Spells: Spells don't have verbal components, though casting a spell does require the ability to speak (whispering should still be fine). However, if the character is unable to speak permanently as part of the character, the GM should work with you to determine another way of casting - such as playing an ocarina.


While I wouldn't call this RAW by any stretch, bard spellcasting does say this.

Bard Spellcasting wrote:
As a bard, when you cast spells, your incantations might be musical riffs or clever limericks, your gestures might incorporate dance and dramatic pantomiming, and you might accompany your spellcasting by playing a musical instrument.

So I'd definitely say it was a consideration, if not RAI, and I'd say it is likely RAI, myself.

Horizon Hunters

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Pre-Remaster, bards were able to replace Verbal Components with playing an instrument. As Perpdepog quoted, post-remaster rules say Bards use music for spellcasting.

There are a lot of creatures who can't speak but are able to cast spells. Speaking isn't necessary for spellcasting, you just need to be able to produce a sound to fulfill the incantation of the spell, whether it be speech, growling, music, or tapping the floor with a staff.

You 100% are able to use music as a replacement for speech when spellcasting.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

It is technically within "consult your GM" territory, as pretty much all long term disabilities are. But I can't imagine anyone objecting to your plan given the text on page 299 of Player Core and if a GM says no, find a new GM or character concept.

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