|
In two or three weeks I'll be playing in a game that starts at 16th level.
Until now, all of my characters have started at 1st, so they proceeded normally,
But starting at such a high level is a bit overwhelming.
If you have had such an experience, what was your process?
Did you build it one level at a time, or just start filling in the character sheet from 16 at the get go?
Oh yeah, and we also have Free Archetypes.
Thanks in advance for any and all advice!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I've always used either an app like Pathbuilder2e, Wanderer's Guide, or something similar, or at least a build sheet that has slots for putting in all the various feats and boosts at the various levels that they come at.
So I guess that counts as building each level at a time separately.
I certainly wouldn't try going straight to the character sheet and filling in a high level character's data. The character sheet is more of an overall summary of the end result.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
As a GM, I have had to create 16th-level NPCs from scratch. I use the Building Creatures rules from the Gamemaster Guide for creating hostile and neutral NPCs, but I discovered that if an NPC is going to travel with the party as a guide or temporary party member, building that character via the player characters rules makes a more rounded character who interacts better. I also occassionally build NPCs via player rules for theorycrafting. Thus, I have experience.
I don't use an app. I create the character in a text file while consulting Archives of Nethys.
Don't build the character one level at a time. That would involve a lot of erasing. But some rules are easier to follow in level order. For example, to determine the character's attribute scores at the final level, a 16th-level character would start with attribute boosts from the usual 1st-level sources: ancestry, background, class, and 4 free boosts--and then get the additional boosts at 5th, 10th, and 15th level. Do this before figuring out their skills, so that they get the full level to proficiency, rather than having to add +1 fifteen times.
Likewise, establish the character's trained skills using their final Intelligence and their 1st-level initial proficiencies. Then count the character's total skill increases up to final level and decide which skills gain those increases.
The key to building a high-level character is to decide on their style. You want their abilities to work together. I have a theorycrafting example over at Thoughts on Time Oracle? comment #36. I was reading this thread about the new time mystery for oracles, and I realized that it fit an existing character who would be visiting the party again.
Yet, I have a PF2 NPC for whom time oracle would be a good fit.
In Assault on Longshadow, the 3rd module of my PF2-converted Ironfang Invasion campaign, I used the map of Longshadow on page 64 in the article on Longshadow. That maps measured 1410 feet by 1870 feet on the scale I used in Roll20, And enemy Brigadier General Kosseruk attacked three different walls of Longshadow, splitting the party for the defense. On that scale, the players could not afford the time to run across the city to communicate with each other, so I invented a messenger NPC named Amelia who did that for them--one advantage of roleplaying in a city is that NPCs are plentiful. Amelia moved around Speed 150 feet, six times human normal, with the players and I ignoring the impossibility for our convenience.
I wanted to build Amelia at 8th level as a time oracle with emphasis on speed but also as a reliable combatant because my players loved reassurance that their old friends in Longshadow could guard the city in their absence. I explained my reasoning for her build choices at the end of that comment #36. She had a martial backstory, the assault on Longshadow, so she would wield a weapon rather than fight with spells. Her oracle curse could render her enfeebled, so she would go for Dexterity-based attacks rather than Strength-based attacks. And for a fast character, staying out of reach would be easy, so she would attack at range. But oracle is not a weapon-using class, so I had to add a multiclass archetype. As so on. Her backstory made some feats seem more fitting than others.
Likewise, a high-level character's backstory will suggest about half their feats and skills, and their personality will suggest a few more. Then playtest the character, even if they still have a few empty spots in their feats and skills. This will reveal what needs to be added or changed to make the character work well.
Many years ago, Beth Moursund wrote an article in The Duelist magazine called, Playing Your Pet: Rough-Testing A Magic Deck that explained how to playtest a Magic: The Gathering deck by yourself. The simplest pet was her goldfish, which did nothing, so the simplest playtesting gained the nickname "goldfishing." Start playtesting your 16th-level character with goldfishing. Just pretend they have something to attack, and start rolling to see if that character has a smooth interacting of abilities. For example, does sustaining spells leave the character with too few actions to cast new spells?
Next, you can pull some level-appropriate creatures from the Bestiary to see how the character fares defensively. Also figure out how to handle obstacles, such as a raging river. Can the character swim it, jump over it, or summon a Phantom Steed to ride over it with air walk?
Testing how well the characte works in a team would be great, but that is too difficult. Just make sure the character has some way to contribute to teamwork.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I build it one level at a time starting from 1st. It's easier to do. Then adjust as needed until I finalize the character.
I do a sort of outline to start with looking at abilities I want, so I have a guide for how I will build the character.
You should have an idea of your group role or what you feel like making prior to hopping in. So I'd read over whatever class you're making, then think about what feats you want to make it happen.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
In two or three weeks I'll be playing in a game that starts at 16th level.
Until now, all of my characters have started at 1st, so they proceeded normally,
But starting at such a high level is a bit overwhelming.
If you have had such an experience, what was your process?
Did you build it one level at a time, or just start filling in the character sheet from 16 at the get go?
Oh yeah, and we also have Free Archetypes.
Thanks in advance for any and all advice!
My first word of advice is to focus on a specific concept and three (maybe four) skills (unless an investigator or rogue). This will help prevent "analysis paralysis" over the number of ancestry, class, and skill increase/feat options.
For example, will a druid focus on battle forms (Untamed/Wild Order, either initially or via Order Explorer) or blasting (Storm Order; Storm Retribution, Overwhelming Energy) and summoning (Call of the Wild, Elemental Summons, Primal Summons)? Battle forms, especially, restrict most of the rest of the class feats if you want to take advantage of Form Control and the flexibility of using the untamed/wild shape focus spell instead of preparing specific polymorph spells.
For skills and skill feats, you should probably look at the feats that require expert, master, and legendary proficiency to "unlock." This lets you align the character's abilities to match the concept and plan the character's progression around gaining those skill feats. "High value" skill feats such as Kip Up (Acrobatics), Unified Theory (Arcana), Quick Jump/Powerful Leap/Wall Jump/Cloud Jump (Athletics), Craft Magical Items/Inventor (Crafting), Bon Mot (Diplomacy), Scare to Death (Intimidation), Continual Recovery/Unusual Treatment (Remaster Player Core) (Medicine), Disturbing Knowledge (Occultism; especially for Int-based characters that are already investing in Occultism), Quiet Allies/Foil Senses/Swift Sneak (Stealth), Monster Crafting (Remaster Player Core, Survival; especially for a Wis-based character with Magical Crafting), and Wary Disarmament/Quick Unlock (Thievery) should be considered when planning on how you want to focus on the character concept.
After you've outlined your priorities, then start going through the process of selecting the level-by-level choices around the focused character concept until you hit the target starting level. In some cases, you may have to fiddle with the order they are selected and/or remove lesser priority options.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Avoid putting 21 / 5.5 and 19 /4.5 in your stats at level 15.
Be aware that some high level abilities completely invalidate choices you might have made earlier and would need retraining. In such a case, optimize directly for the high-level build.
My example for this is Bestiary Scholar vs taking many Additional Lores.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
You could even use the level by level approach to write a mini biography or campaign for your history. ‘At level one, my wizard went out with her Staff Nexus thesis and did stuff. She learned that five cantrips wasn’t enough and got Cantrip Expansion. Then after one too many arrows to the knee she learned Armour Proficiency … ‘. As long as it fits any needed story beats, have some fun.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
As an example of how to put a character together, I started with an idea of a barbarian with the multiclased kineticist dedication (to provide ranged elemental blasts with attacks based on Con instead of Dex, plus some other options). Then refined it with a focus on mobility (Athletics, mostly) and Intimidation.
Looking through the ancestries, the catfolk feats Springing Leaper and Predator's Growl work well with the concept. The sharp-eared heritage (+2 on Seek checks to hear undetected creatures) compliments the Predator's Growl feat. Also, Cat's Luck will probably be a good idea for the character.
Developing the level-by-level character progression is now fairly straightforward:
Starting ability scores: 18 Str, 12 Dex, 14 Con, 10 Int, 10 Wis, 12 Cha
Starting trained skills: Acrobatics, Athletics, Intimidation, Warfare Lore, plus two others (possibly Stealth and Survival, to match a predatory catfolk theme)
1st- Cat's Luck; Cat Fall; Sudden Charge
2nd- Raging Intimidation (Intimidating Glare); Kineticist Dedication (Earth); Quick Jump
3rd- Fleet; Expert in Athletics
4th- Fast Movement; Through the Gate (Armor in Earth; +5 AC bonus, +1 Dex Cap, Bulwark, proficiency matches class, runes from normal armor apply; yes, please!)*; Powerful Leap
5th- Springing Leaper; Expert in Intimidation; +1 Str, +2 Con, +2 Wis, +2 Cha
6th- Attack of Opportunity; Advanced Element Control (Weapon Infusion)*; Intimidating Prowess
7th- Toughness; Master in Athletics
8th- Sudden Leap; Improved Elemental Blast*; Wall Jump
9th- Predator's Growl; Master in Intimidation
10th- retrain barbarian instinct to Elemental/Fire to use fire blasts/impulses when in rage (overflow impulses, especially); Furious Sprint; Add Element (Fire; Blazing Wave)*; Battle Cry; +1 Str, +2 Con, +2 Wis, +2 Cha
11th- Incredible Initiative; Expert in Acrobatics
12th- Terrifying Howl; Advanced Element Control (Lava Leap)*; Water Sprint
13th- Sense for Trouble; Master in Acrobatics
14th- Whirlwind Strike; Expert Kinetic Control*
15th- Canny Acumen (Reflex; already has Expert on Reflex saves, but Canny Accumen will increase that to Master at 17th level); Legendary Intimidation (Scare to Death automatically from Raging Intimidation); +1 Str, +2 Dex, +1 Con, +2 Wis (total 21/+5.5 Str, 14/+2 Dex, 19/+4.5 Con, 10/+0 Int, 16/+3 Wis, 16/+3 Cha; assuming 20th level is possible, otherwise go with +2 Dex, +2 Int, +2 Wis, +2 Cha)
16th- Penetrating Projectile (can be used with Weapon Infusion [piercing, thrown] on an elemental blast); Advanced Element Control (Solar Detonation)*; Quick Climb (or some other feat that the character qualifies for)
Key gear: greater reef heart (15th), ouroboros flail (14th), greater boots of bounding (14th), greater gate attenuator (11th)
The last few levels are also fairly straightforward:
18th- Brutal Critical; Improved Elemental Blast*; Cloud Jump
19th- A Home in Every Port (or whatever feat the character qualifies for); Expert in Stealth (at this point, the only benefit to go with Legendary in Acrobatics is to fall any distance with Cat Fall)
20th- Unstoppable Juggernaut; Advanced Elemental Control (Chain Infusion)*; Shadow Mark; +1 Str, +1 Con, +2 Wis, +2 Cha (total 22/+6 Str [24/+7 with an apex item], 14/+2 Dex, 20/+5 Con, 10/+0 Int, 18/+4 Wis, 18/+4 Cha)
|
You could read through the available feats in your class, and maybe read through cool sounding archetypes as well. Then pick 2-4 of them that you think are really cool and use those to guide your other choices. For example, you decide that a giant barbarian turning really big when they rage is cool. So you take those feats as a start, and then start picking other stuff that makes sense together with it, like a reach weapon and attack of opportunity. And maybe you also like the Swipe feat so you take that and find a reach/sweep weapon so that it's easier to get into situations where you can hew into adjacent foes. Now you've got two main build targets and you can start filling in the remaining open spots.
You might need to restart a couple of times. It's possible that you pick cool feats A and B, but they both kinda call for a lot of other things and you find that you can't really do justice to A and B both. But maybe if you drop B as a goal and adopt C instead, because A and C share more of the same supporting structure.
