This is semi rules discussion, semi opinion question.
I had a couple of questions about this spell, and people's thoughts on it.
First, I was wondering about using the spell alongside Art Lore to, say, color a canvas. There is an option to "color" nested in the "Tidy" function of the spell. So I wonder what exactly was meant by color that associates it with tidying. Is it meant more to restore color, or to be able to recolor things on a whim?
If it can recolor things, turn blue to red and purple to pink, then I wonder how much control you have over that. If you have a blank white canvas, do you turn the whole canvas red, or can you make a red stroke, or spot? If the canvas is half yellow and half blue to start, can you color the yellow or blue portion red, or does it turn the whole thing red, because the canvas is the target?
Second question: I was excited about using the spell to clean people when bathing isn't an option, but I noticed then that the target is an object. I did see a forum with people discussing the same thing, though they discussed as if it wasn't an issue and nobody mentioned that the target is an object.
It does seem odd, that you can remove dirt from armor, but not dirt from somebody's face, since then you're targeting a creature. I wondered what people think of using the spell for that kind of a borderline issue, and if it opens the spell up to any abuses if you allowed that. I think you could draw some distinction between removing/adding dirt to the surface of a person, but not doing things that affect the person directly like warming/cooling them, or coloring their skin or such.
Hair might be defined as a non-living "object", maybe that's an abuse case? If somebody is looking for a brunette and you turned your hair blonde. Could also be a fun creative option. Where do people think the lines are?
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My thoughts is that Prestidigitation is meant for any form of magical role-play purpose. There are a very few minor things that it lists out that it can do that do have mechanical benefits. But that list of minor mechanical benefits should not be used to restrict the role-play value of the spell.
So the line that I draw is that Prestidigitation cannot give game mechanics benefits unless it explicitly lists it in the spell. But it can be used for nearly anything else.
Examples:
One of the mechanical benefits that it lists is the 'Lift' ability. You can slowly lift an object of light bulk up to one foot off the ground. That does not duplicate the effects of Mage Hand which can move an object in any direction at speeds up to 20 feet per sustain action.
The 'Clean' ability of Prestidigitation cannot replicate the benefits of Purify Food and Drink, Cleanse Air, Neutralize Poison, or even Well-Groomed. It can be used to remove 'bad' (but harmless) smells from the air, clean up the pots and pans after cooking a meal, remove the mushrooms or onions from a plate of food, or wash someone's face.
As for using Prestidigitation to paint with, that is a bit trickier. I can see arguments for both sides.
On one side, there are cantrips that replicate basic toolkits.
Healing Plaster for Healer's Tools.
Know Direction for a Compass.
Inside Ropes for a Climber's toolkit.
So certainly a cantrip can replicate the effects of Artisan's Tools for crafting a painting.
On the other side, those are each specific cantrips that allow replacing specific toolkits for specific purposes. You can't use Prestidigitation to replicate all toolkits for one cantrip slot. So a GM is fully justified in telling you, 'no'.
There are a couple of middle-ground options here that I can come up with.
One is to create a custom homebrew cantrip that will replicate Artisan Tools for painting.
Another is to allow, as a character perk, your character specifically to use Prestidigitation to paint with - but no other uses of Artisan's Tools.
So certainly a cantrip can replicate the effects of Artisan's Tools for crafting a painting.
With the GM's cooperation you could even research such a cantrip yourself, specifically meant to work with Art Lore (and similar Lores). It wouldn't have the other functions of prestidigitation, of course. And I'd expect it to take more than a moment to function for anything more complex than a splash of color, but OTOH it shouldn't need a set of paints to work with so you'd never run out.
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I would allow someone to use prestidigitation to paint without brushes or paint (they would still need a canvas or similar surface, however). In any case, it would take just as long and be just as difficult as painting with brushes and paint would be (including skill checks if appropriate).
Well, first of all, I would suggest that if your are a player with a plan for a specific character, in a specific campaign, this is a conversation for your table and not for the internet.
But you seem to want to just generally talk about how this spell might work so I will play along.
I would not personally say prestidigitation can be used to make a painting, even if you had a canvas in front of you. Painting is not just about changing the color of an object and involves textures and layers that feel far beyond the scope of this spell. I would personally say that the canvas itself is the object in this case, so you could change the color of the whole canvas, but not part of it.
Changing one of the colors of an existing painting is probably ok, but as a GM, I would say that the spell itself makes changes that are crude and fragile, meaning it would destroy the value of the art object, unless you are able to start a new art movement (similar to drawing mustaches with a sharpie), but that would be about more than just the act of casting the spell.
I do let players use prestidigitation to clean themselves and others, and would even let it be used to change hair color, but again, the effects are crude and obviously fake. Using it as a disguise would be nearly impossible, as even for "appearing like a clown" it would be like the worst clown imaginable.
But if you want to look like you took cleaning bleach, or maybe Kool Aid, and applied it to your hair, I would allow it as a GM.
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I would allow someone to use prestidigitation to paint without brushes or paint (they would still need a canvas or similar surface, however). In any case, it would take just as long and be just as difficult as painting with brushes and paint would be (including skill checks if appropriate).
Addendum: This technique would not produce a traditional painting, but would result in a canvas with a colored picture. Detail and value of the end result would likely depend on your Craft check after an appropriate amount of downtime.
You could not use prestidigitation to keep a colorized pipe from rusting or gain other benefits that a physical coat of paint might provide.
I might allow those things if traditional paints were used in conjunction with the spell, however.
In any case, you would not reduce Crafting costs or derive similar benefits.
I would allow someone to use prestidigitation to paint without brushes or paint (they would still need a canvas or similar surface, however). In any case, it would take just as long and be just as difficult as painting with brushes and paint would be (including skill checks if appropriate).
Are you ruling out tricks like "painting" a stone statue, or is that similar to a canvas? In the second case I'm not clear what you are ruling out. Splashes of color hanging in the air by themselves?
Are you ruling out tricks like "painting" a stone statue, or is that similar to a canvas? In the second case I'm not clear what you are ruling out. Splashes of color hanging in the air by themselves?I would allow someone to use prestidigitation to paint without brushes or paint (they would still need a canvas or similar surface, however). In any case, it would take just as long and be just as difficult as painting with brushes and paint would be (including skill checks if appropriate).
Colorizing a statue, even parts of one, would be fine I think. I probably would not allow it upon the air unless the air was already visible; too much potential for abuse otherwise. You could turn black billowing smoke into pink billowing smoke (perhaps to deliver specific preplanned signals), but you could not turn the clear air black in order to blind people.
You could not colorize a creature that was not willing, and it would not be detailed or significant enough to give bonuses to disguise, perform, stealth, or other skills.
Edit: The tidy/color function appears to only allow objects. That makes the spell significantly more limited than what I just described.
I probably would not allow it upon the air unless the air was already visible; too much potential for abuse otherwise.
Yes. And that is the purpose of Figment.
A side note in this:
I remember distinctively a 'kobold' from the original kingmaker books that used prestidigitazion to turn another Kobolds corpse yellow and scare the remaining Tribe with it
For the concept of creating art with prestidigitation, I would simply rule that prestidigitation lets you use Artisan Tools telekinetically for anything you can already do yourself.
So maybe you animate the paintbrush to paint on its own, or you drag the ink directly from the pot onto the canvas, or anything else you might think of.
Mechanically, the difference between:
a Rogue character that uses crafting to paint pictures as an Earn Income activity by buying a set of Artisan's Tools;
and a Wizard character that uses crafting to paint pictures as an Earn Income activity by using Prestidigitation to magically color the canvas;
...
is the one-time 4 GP purchase of the Artisan's Tools and the Bulk space to carry them around with.
As a GM, I'm not sure why I would want to shut down the character concept for that. Even (or, especially for) a very small aspect of the character concept. At most I would have them update their cost tracking and inventory sheet to pay the 4 GP. If we are tracking gold that closely.
I was approaching it more from a perspective of "how would it work if there were rules for it".
I find it can help players imagine how they would use an ability if they have a clear framework for what it can/can't do.
But if the player already has a clear concept in mind then I agree it doesn't break anything if you handwave a 4 GP restriction.
You can bet said character likely spent a lot more than 4gp to be able to go to Wizarding school to learn how to do that too. XD
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You can bet said character likely spent a lot more than 4gp to be able to go to Wizarding school to learn how to do that too. XD
One of my sisters went to art school, so I'm not convinced that the Rogue would be ahead in finances.
Since a person's hair is dead cells, and therefore not living (other than the roots), it's more of an attended object. And prestidigitation doesn't say the object has to be unattended.
So if you change the color of someone's hair, do you get close enough to the roots, or does it look like a bad dye job?
You can bet said character likely spent a lot more than 4gp to be able to go to Wizarding school to learn how to do that too. XD
I did not attend any Wizarding school. I am trained in crafting and am able to cast Prestidigitation.