Can I linger inspire courage, then next round cast Dirge of Doom?
Usually no. But, if you have the level 6 Maestro Muse feat Harmomize, then yes, you can. If you have Lingering, you're Maestro, so starting at level 8, if you took one of Dirge/Harmonize at 6 and the other at 8, then yes.
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I don't think Harmonize helps, either. I read it like you have to apply it to your first Composition but you can't apply it and Lingering to the same one. So the best you could do is
Harmozize -> Courage or Dirge -> Lingering Performance -> Courage or Dirge (the other one, obviously)
But you'd still need to cast the first one again next turn and it WILL end the lingering effect, even if you Harmonize it again.
You could do this.
Round one of the fight. Or really any round, but round one would seem the most likely time to do it.
1st Action: Harmonize.
2nd Action: Dirge.
Harmonize specifically says that you can cast another Composition Cantrip in the same round as the Harmonized Cantrip.
Free Action: Lingering and it's Performance Check.
3rd Action: Inspire.
You could also switch the Dirge and Inspire depending on which you wanted to Linger, but the Harmonize would have to come before the Linger, as Harmonize is what enables the second Cantrip cast.
Now, in Round 2 there are more permutations. If you failed the Perform check, both Dirge and Inspire would fall off, but you could Sustain one of them as normal, and if you still wanted both up, you'd have to /not/ sustain Dirge, and repeat the above rotation, which would be a massive action cost.
If you made the Perform Check, however, Inspire would stay up for 3 or 4 rounds, via Lingering, and you could normally Sustain Dirge.
If Linger was an action, then you couldn't do them both in the same round, but it's a Free Action, so it's something you can pull off.
On top of all that, Harmonize's first words are "You can perform multiple compositions simultaneously." That's just pretty clear writing.
Also, yes, if you recast the Dirge round 2, I agree that it would cancel the Lingering, so it's not something I think one would do often, but you can do it.
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You could do this.
Round one of the fight. Or really any round, but round one would seem the most likely time to do it.
1st Action: Harmonize.
2nd Action: Dirge.
Harmonize specifically says that you can cast another Composition Cantrip in the same round as the Harmonized Cantrip.
Free Action: Lingering and it's Performance Check.
3rd Action: Inspire.You could also switch the Dirge and Inspire depending on which you wanted to Linger, but the Harmonize would have to come before the Linger, as Harmonize is what enables the second Cantrip cast.
Yes, that's what I said. Totally agree.
Now, in Round 2 there are more permutations. If you failed the Perform check, both Dirge and Inspire would fall off, but you could Sustain one of them as normal, and if you still wanted both up, you'd have to /not/ sustain Dirge, and repeat the above rotation, which would be a massive action cost.
If you made the Perform Check, however, Inspire would stay up for 3 or 4 rounds, via Lingering, and you could normally Sustain Dirge.
I disagree on the part I have bolded. If you cast Dirge on the second round, the Lingering Courage ends immediately. Harmonized compositions can't be ended by other composition But nothing in Harmonize says they can't end other compositions.
Also, you can't Sustain these cantrips. They have a duration of one round. You can only cast them again next turn and that ends all other active compositions.
On top of all that, Harmonize's first words are "You can perform multiple compositions simultaneously." That's just pretty clear writing.
As so often, the first sentence is a flavor description, not rules text. The Rules text is
"If your next action is to cast a composition, it becomes a harmonized composition. Unlike a normal composition, a harmonized composition doesn’t end if you cast another composition, and you can cast another composition on the same turn as a harmonized one. Casting another harmonized composition ends any harmonized composition you have in effect."
And again, nothing in there prevents a Harmonized compostion from ending another composition.
Can I linger inspire courage, then next round cast Dirge of Doom?
Technically, yes. That is a valid use of actions and resources.
It probably won't do what you want though. As others have mentioned, starting a composition will end any other composition effects that you have active at the time.
As for Lingering Performance and Harmonize, it seems to me like those are similar to the implied restrictions on Metamagic/Spellshape effects where you can only effectively use one of them.
@Blave. I agree with the round 2 Dirge canceling the lingering.
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If you do it the other way around, it sort of stacks. Dirge first gives frightened 1. Enemy turn arrives, they do their stuff and they cannot lower frightened below 1 if they are inside the area. Your turn arrives and Dirge ends, making it so enemies can lower their frightened condition. Frightened 1 still remains until they finish their turn, though (it is a condition with its own rules to determine duration). If you do Inspire Courage then you would get a small edge.
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If you do it the other way around, it sort of stacks. Dirge first gives frightened 1. Enemy turn arrives, they do their stuff and they cannot lower frightened below 1 if they are inside the area. Your turn arrives and Dirge ends, making it so enemies can lower their frightened condition. Frightened 1 still remains until they finish their turn, though (it is a condition with its own rules to determine duration). If you do Inspire Courage then you would get a small edge.
Nice. I will definitely use this.
Frightened 1 still remains until they finish their turn, though (it is a condition with its own rules to determine duration).
I will mention that this is a bit debatable. But arguing against it is an uphill battle.
The argument for it is that this is what is said in the 4th printing clarifications:
Page 458 (Clarification): If an affliction makes me enfeebled 1 without listing a duration and the affliction ends, am I enfeebled forever?
The rules on Conditions from Afflictions note that a condition can last for a longer duration that the affliction that caused it, using drained as an example. There are three categories of effects from afflictions here.
1 Immediate effects like damage happen as soon as you reach the stage.
2 Conditions that have a way to end them by default last for their normal duration. This includes conditions like drained, frightened, persistent damage, and sickened.
3 Conditions that always need to include a duration because they don’t have a normal way to recover from them—such as clumsy or paralyzed—last as long as the stage of the affliction on which they appear. This also applies to effects that are ongoing but specific to the affliction rather than being defined conditions, such as a penalty to certain rolls.
The argument against this (other than people not realizing that it is there) is that this clarification is for afflictions, not spells.
Without applying the clarifications for afflictions to spells also, all we have to look at is the rules for spell durations
Some spells have effects that remain even after the spell’s magic is gone. Any ongoing effect that isn’t part of the spell’s duration entry isn’t considered magical.
Which doesn't give much guidance on which effects last past the duration of the spell and which don't.
There is also the specific overrides general rule. It could be argued that the specific rule about Compositions ending when you cast another composition will override the general rules about effects persisting beyond the end of their spell.
You wouldn't allow casting Dirge of Doom to apply Frightened 1 to all enemies with your first action of a round, then casting Inspire Courage as your second and still allowing the Frightened 1 to apply. What would be the point of needing Harmonize to exist at all then?
It all comes down to what you consider to be more specific, Composition trait rules or how the frightened condition works. I had this discussion with SuperBidi in the past IIRC. Even if I consider Frightened to be more specific than composition, it is clearly one of those cases in which there will be GM variation.
What would be the point of needing Harmonize to exist at all then?
There are more composition cantrips than Dirge and even with Dirge it extends the effect of frightening not lowering below 1 for 1 turn. It also makes it so the emanation persists, so enemies entering the area outside of your turn will ignore it.
Let's be real, ruling it so Dirge does not extend does not suddenly make Harmonize a good feat.
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If you do it the other way around, it sort of stacks. Dirge first gives frightened 1. Enemy turn arrives, they do their stuff and they cannot lower frightened below 1 if they are inside the area. Your turn arrives and Dirge ends, making it so enemies can lower their frightened condition. Frightened 1 still remains until they finish their turn, though (it is a condition with its own rules to determine duration). If you do Inspire Courage then you would get a small edge.Nice. I will definitely use this.
Sadly, shroudb's post convinced me that Frightened will end with the Dirge.
Mmm. If Frightened 1 comes from casting Fear in addition to Dirge, would it disappear when Dirge ends ?
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If Frightened 1 comes from casting Fear in addition to Dirge, would it disappear when Dirge ends ?
You would have duplicate and redundant conditions with values.
So the Frightened 1 from Dirge would end, but the Frightened 1 from Fear wouldn't.
But that is assuming that both Dirge of Doom and Fear succeed and are causing Frightened 1. Dirge doesn't do anything else, but Fear can.
Edit: Oh, I get what you are pointing out. Yes, Dirge of Doom would prevent the Frightened 1 from Fear from being reduced like it normally would. So when Dirge ends suddenly, the Frightened 1 from Fear would continue for its normal duration.