Here's a character I came up with just this morning:
Peter Pillbug, Poisoner Extraordinaire
Human alchemist 1 (Advanced Player's Guide)
LN, Medium, Human, Humanoid
Heritage versatile human
Background merabite prodigy
Perception +4
Languages Common, Draconic, Elven, Goblin, Mwangi, Osiriani
Skills Acrobatics +4, Alchemical Lore +7, Crafting +7 (+8 when crafting poisons.), Deception +3, Diplomacy +3, Medicine +4, Society +7, Stealth +4, Survival +4, Thievery +4
Str 10 (+0), Dex 14 (+2), Con 14 (+2), Int 18 (+4), Wis 12 (+1), Cha 10 (+0)
Items studded leather, blowgun (10 blowgun darts), dagger, sling (20 sling bullets), alchemist's tools, backpack, basic crafter's book, batches of infused reagent, bedroll, caltrops (2), chalk (10), flint and steel, healer's tools, rations (1 week) (2), repair kit, rope (foot) (50), soap, The Fundamentals of Alchemy, thieves' tools, torch (5), waterskin, familiar, money, purse (2 gp, 4 sp, 3 cp)
--------------------
AC 17; Fort +7; Ref +7; Will +4
HP 18
--------------------
Speed 25 feet
Melee [1] dagger +5 (versatile S, thrown 10 ft., agile, finesse), Damage 1d4 P
Ranged [1] blowgun +5 (nonlethal, agile, range increment 20 feet, reload 1), Damage 1 P
Ranged [1] dagger +5 (versatile S, thrown 10 ft., agile, finesse), Damage 1d4 P
Ranged [1] sling +5 (propulsive, range increment 50 feet, reload 1), Damage 1d6 B
Ancestry Feats Natural Ambition
Class Feats Alchemical Familiar, Subtle Delivery[APG]
Skill Feats Alchemical Crafting, Battle Medicine, Specialty Crafting
Other Abilities advanced alchemy, extra reagents, familiar, formula book, infused reagents, quick alchemy, research field, signature items, toxicologist
--------------------
Peter graduated summa cum laude from Merab University with a dual major in Alchemy and Medicine. He is currently pursuing graduate studies, refining his knowledge of poisons.
Peter's parents fell afoul of a powerful merchant in Merab, and Peter believes this merchant hired an assassin to kill them. He longs for revenge.
Tiny
Homunculus
LN, Tiny, Construct, Minion
low-light vision
--------------------
AC 17; Fort +7; Ref +7; Will +4
HP 5
--------------------
Speed 25 feet, fly 25 feet
Other Abilities flier, land speed
Hero Lab and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free demo available at https://herolab.online
Pathfinder and associated marks and logos are trademarks of Paizo Inc., and are used under license.
Perhaps Peter is not a min-maxer.
Fairly solid. I would echo MEATSHED : Alchemists have most of their fun by hitting things. You want to maximize your chances there,so I would drop Con to +1 and increase Dex to +3. Also, Quicksilver Mutagen is your friend. Keep increasing Con when you can and grab Toughness as a general feat somewhere along the way.
As for Subtle Delivery: It's definitely not ideal as a primary combat strategy. However, it's a decent tool under certain circumstances: namely, if resistance to piercing and/or slashing is preventing you from delivering your poisons. Probably a rare circumstance though. If you want a 2nd Alchemist Class feat I would consider Alchemical Savant; great flavour and can come in handy depending on your campaign. (It's aces in Outlaws of Alkenstar for example.)
I've come to believe that a thrown weapons build is strongest for Toxicologist; you might want to look at investing in javelins with an eye to grabbing a Thrower's Bandolier around 3rd.
Thanks, ottdmk, some good points there.
I forgot to say, in the OP, that this build assumes three optional rules, all of which have their first impact at level 2: free archetype, gradual ability boosts, and automatic bonus progression. I might go back and add deep backgrounds, too, just for grins. :-)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Ok, cool. I would still start with Dex +3 if you can. Also, ABP and Elixirs work strangely together; easiest fix is for Elixirs to give Potency Bonuses and leave it at that.
You know, the more I think about it, the more I like the idea of a blowgun as a backup for certain circumstances when you have Subtle Delivery. Hitting a Skeleton with a dose of Brightshade at Level 4 using a blowgun sounds absolutely hilarious.
If your GM is a bit more forgiving I HIGHLY recommend you pick up uncommon inhaled poisons.
If in-hand when combat starts, you can pop one for a single action, and there's no need to land a strike. You don't get the damage of a hit, but that also means there's no MAP at play, and can be done in the same turn as a poisoned strike.
Moreover, where injury poisons are one and done, an inhaled poison lingers, setting up a hazard and potentially poisoning a target at a later time.
Another big question is what you plan to invest your Class Feats in outside of Alchemist.
If you ask your GM, some may not consider activating an inhaled poison to compromise the "hostile action" breaker of Invisibility.
You could attempt to rapidly fire a high number of arrows for more hits, get in close with a bunch of injection modded daggers, ect. That kind of thing does need to be planned for somewhat early, such as skipping Quick Bomber and grabbing Quick Draw instead.
I also highly recommend the Independent + Manual Dex for familiar abilities if you want to use a bunch of items mid combat, it's a big difference.
I hate to say it, but yeah, I cannot really see Subtle Delivery working out very well. Maybe if it was houseruled to not break stealth that would give it a real niche, but otherwise, be ready to retrain it later.
Blowguns are reload-1, which means that you can carry many, preloaded, and dish them out via Quick Draw --> drop for a single action. If it didn't suffer MAP, that would be a pretty good option for invoking injury poisons.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Is it a character you're supposed to play? In what environment? What expected level range?
Because it's also important as the Alchemist is extremely dependent on the environment and the level you play it.
I wanted to create an interesting character. As to environment and level, I haven't got that far yet.
Because the optional rules I put in place for him first come into play at level 2, here's Peter at that level:
Peter Pillbug, Poisoner Extraordinaire
Male human alchemist 2 (Advanced Player's Guide)
LN, Medium, Human, Humanoid
Heritage versatile human
Background merabite prodigy
Perception +5 (+7 to Seek your mark)
Languages Common, Draconic, Elven, Goblin, Mwangi, Osiriani
Skills Acrobatics +6, Alchemical Lore +8, Crafting +8 (+9 when crafting poisons items.), Deception +4 (+6 to Feint your mark), Diplomacy +4, Medicine +5, Society +8, Stealth +6, Survival +5, Thievery +6
Str 10 (+0), Dex 16 (+3), Con 14 (+2), Int 18 (+4), Wis 12 (+1), Cha 10 (+0)
Items studded leather, blowgun (10 blowgun darts), dagger, sling (20 sling bullets), alchemist's tools, backpack, basic crafter's book, batches of infused reagent, bedroll, caltrops (2), chalk (10), flint and steel, healer's tools, rations (1 week) (2), repair kit, rope (foot) (50), soap, The Fundamentals of Alchemy, thieves' tools, torch (5), waterskin, familiar, money, purse (1 sp, 8 cp)
--------------------
AC 19; Fort +8; Ref +9; Will +5; +1 status bonus vs. poisons.
HP 28; Resistances poison 1
--------------------
Speed 25 feet
Melee [1] dagger +8 (versatile S, thrown 10 ft., agile, finesse), Damage 1d4 P
Ranged [1] blowgun +8 (nonlethal, agile, range increment 20 feet, reload 1), Damage 1 P
Ranged [1] dagger +8 (versatile S, thrown 10 ft., agile, finesse), Damage 1d4 P
Ranged [1] sling +8 (propulsive, range increment 50 feet, reload 1), Damage 1d6 B
Ancestry Feats Natural Ambition
Class Feats Alchemical Familiar, Assassin Dedication[APG], Poison Resistance, Subtle Delivery[APG]
Skill Feats Alchemical Crafting, Assurance, Battle Medicine, Specialty Crafting
Other Abilities advanced alchemy, extra reagents, familiar, formula book, infused reagents, quick alchemy, research field, signature items, toxicologist
--------------------
Peter graduated summa cum laude from Merab University with a dual major in Alchemy and Medicine. He is currently pursuing graduate studies, refining his knowledge of poisons.
Peter's parents fell afoul of a powerful merchant in Merab, and Peter believes this merchant hired an assassin to kill them. He longs for revenge.
Hero Lab and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free demo available at https://herolab.online
Pathfinder and associated marks and logos are trademarks of Paizo Inc., and are used under license.
Cool. I'm curious as to your proposed combat strategy. Are you going to focus on the blowgun, or do you have something else in mind?
I continue to believe you should have +4 in Dex under this scheme... :-D
I'd be interested in seeing your planned formula book.
Finally, why are you +1 on Crafting Poisons? Specialty Crafting can be broader than that. You could have that bonus to Crafting any Alchemical item.
I expect most of his effort in combat will be delivering poisons via the blowgun. And hiding and sneaking a lot.
I don't think +4 Int *and* +4 dex is possible at this level, and I'm not at all sure that +3 Int and +4 dex is a good idea. However, one possible level 20 spread based on his current start is STR 0, DEX +5, CON +4, INT +6, WIS +4, CHA +3. I went back and forth on whether to put that last plus to WIS or CHA. I supposed I could be convinced to go the other way.
+1 on crafting poisons because it didn't occur to me to apply to all alchemical crafting.
My plan wrt alchemical formulas is to buy/beg/steal/find all the formulas I don't get from class advancement. His current book has 41 common formulas in it, all first or second level (some firsts or seconds he doesn't have yet -- he ran out of money. He does have all the level 1/2 poisons though.) :-)
I wanted to create an interesting character. As to environment and level, I haven't got that far yet.
I've played with a Toxicologist with a Blowgun. It was so weak it was just a waste of table time to see them playing.
Dex-based Toxicologists who expect to deliver Poison by themselves are a 2-digit build. Before that, you deal miserable damage with extremely few utility (with the Clown Monarch, you can be an ok debuffer, but you end up as a 1-trick poney with 20% of the fights where you just sit and watch).
Once at high level, your weapons start to deal enough damage for you to have a fallback ability against Poison immune enemies. And with the level 13 ability, you can now debuff fine while doing damage. Before that, I'd not consider playing a Dex-based Toxicologist.
I will note that you need weapon runes so don't blow a ton of money on learning formulas.
With Automatic Bonus Progression?
I will note that you need weapon runes so don't blow a ton of money on learning formulas.
Interestingly, the build doesn't really need weapons runes until L8 or so. Quicksilver removes the need for potency runes on ranged weapons and putting a striking rune on a blowgun is a waste of gold. Might consider a striking rune on the sling or something, but by L4 this guy is going to have 9 Batches of Infused Reagents a day. That's enough for four Quicksilvers and 21 doses of Poison. Which is likely enough to use the blowgun all day every day.
I agree that it's not a great strategy, but Ed mentioned it's his focus, so I'm just rolling with it. Extra formulae are, in my experience, always useful though. There will be times when having options is important. In one Scenario I spent a couple of days in a village doing investigative work and skill challenges.
