The Avatar stuff is a little disappointing


Animist Class Discussion


The write-up of the class devotes a lot of space to "you can become an avatar of your spirit" but this is an ability that only ever matters at levels 19 and 20 (the same levels divine casters get the spell "Avatar".) A lot of characters might never see these levels, so a lot of this rules text feels superfluous.

Hypothetically, you should be better at this than other people, and battle forms often have a "heightened" line to make them relevant at a range of levels. Could perhaps "incarnate your spirit to become a battle form" be available at levels where your career is not nearly over, just at a lesser effect? It's not like in folklore and mythology "avatar" necessarily means "incredibly powerful", after all in some Hindu traditions every living thing is an avatar of Vishnu. There's even a tradition of "full avatars" vs. "partial avatars" in that Rama, Krishna, and Narasimha (for example) embody Vishnu more fully than do other Avatars of Vishnu.

Sovereign Court

It feels like a really sudden pivot. For 18 levels you're a primary caster, and then suddenly you have a battle form that's presented as if it were a capstone class feature.

When I previously played a cleric in Age of Ashes I wasn't really tempted to use Avatar anyway, because last I looked you still couldn't cast spells in avatar form.


Yeah, it feels reasonable to discuss "at what levels you can expect people to actually dramatically change up their combat routines" and that level is probably not "19".

Either making "something analogous but less good" available at lower levels or "completely removing this class feature in exchange for something else" would seem to me an improvement.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

avatar was always a spell exist to be cool not useful

not like cleric or oracle are busy using their only level 10 spell that day to transform into a far worse martial


PossibleCabbage wrote:
making "something analogous but less good" available at lower levels

Like Walk of the Wilds and Wind Seeker? Or is that not analogous enough?


I basically ignored the Avatar because it isn't different from what other divine casters get.

I agree. It's presented by the class text as some super cool feature but in practice doesn't give anything new.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I do kind of wish there was a 'lesser avatar' spell somewhere in the game that let you tap into this font of divine power before the end of the game.

I don't necessarily have a problem with unique avatars for Animists, it's thematically very cool, but at the same time a spirit only has four entries in its description, so it's kind of feelsbad that one of them is possibly never going to be relevant.


Squiggit wrote:

I do kind of wish there was a 'lesser avatar' spell somewhere in the game that let you tap into this font of divine power before the end of the game.

I don't necessarily have a problem with unique avatars for Animists, it's thematically very cool, but at the same time a spirit only has four entries in its description, so it's kind of feelsbad that one of them is possibly never going to be relevant.

isn't that level 7 divine vessel

not as fancy as avatar but actually useful

Liberty's Edge

PossibleCabbage wrote:

The write-up of the class devotes a lot of space to "you can become an avatar of your spirit" but this is an ability that only ever matters at levels 19 and 20 (the same levels divine casters get the spell "Avatar".) A lot of characters might never see these levels, so a lot of this rules text feels superfluous.

Hypothetically, you should be better at this than other people, and battle forms often have a "heightened" line to make them relevant at a range of levels. Could perhaps "incarnate your spirit to become a battle form" be available at levels where your career is not nearly over, just at a lesser effect? It's not like in folklore and mythology "avatar" necessarily means "incredibly powerful", after all in some Hindu traditions every living thing is an avatar of Vishnu. There's even a tradition of "full avatars" vs. "partial avatars" in that Rama, Krishna, and Narasimha (for example) embody Vishnu more fully than do other Avatars of Vishnu.

I think the idea is that Apparitions end up giving an Animist the same kind of power a deity gives to their Cleric. Hence Avatar.

Community / Forums / Archive / Pathfinder / War Of Immortals Playtest / Animist Class Discussion / The Avatar stuff is a little disappointing All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Animist Class Discussion