Character Sheet Feedback

[Its_Immanis]

Not sure if this is the best place to post this but since the new character sheet came out with the playtest material I figure it'll be okay.

Would it be possible to do another pass at page 4 of the updated core character sheet and bring back the individual boxes for spells, similar to how Feats/Class Abilities section is laid out?

I understand that casters can have a variable amount of spells so having the open space is intended to allow them room to use as much or as little space as they want for each spell, but not having some built in delineation runs the risk of that page just turning into three walls of text or creating eye fatigue.

[kwodo]

I'd also like to point out that the lack of a space to write your MAP applied attack bonuses is a major oversight

[Tactical Drongo]

honestly I have trouble even finding the sheet

[ZamuelNow]

https://downloads.paizo.com/RemasterPlayerCoreCharacterSheet.pdf
Here's where they posted the sheet.

For me, I'm looking at it and seeing there's not a page for formulae so an Alchemist is still stuck just tossing them onto the spells page. I also agree that the lack of boxes on that page will likely lead to eye strain/walls of text.

[Tactical Drongo]

The lack of boxes is really a downgrade. Generally, the more 'free' spaces seem design wise like a downgrade to me.

I also think there should be an additional space for spellbook/formulae book etc

I would also love to see something like alternate fourth page for alchemists/kineticists and a dedicated space for companions

[Agara]

First, let me just say I love the clean design, and the printer friendliness of the new character sheet. I thank you, my printer thanks you, my toner budget thanks you. This sheet is much easier on the eyes than the old brown ones.

But it could be better.

1) As others have pointed out, I would really, really like enough room to write out my MAP figures on the sheet. It would save time during play to have those numbers right there in front of me.

2) A dedicated sheet for animal companions seems like an oversight. Even if it's just a statblock format, it would be something.

3) Either make the boxes for Traits and Notes on weapons larger, or move the words traits and notes out of it. You lose a quarter of the box from the label and (granted this an extreme example) my gnome inventor flickmace cannot fit Gnome, Reach, Sweep, Uncommon, Magical, Grapple, Trip, Hampering, Versatile P in that box even if I abbreviate most of them.

4) There's no spot for the range of ranged weapons, so you have to put that in the traits box, which is (see above) already hurting for space.

5) Alchemists really will need their own page when they come out in Player Core II. And I'd honestly like a second (fifth) page dedicated to just spells - that way I could add notes about the spells, like range and damage, instead of having to keep the book on the table so I can reference the ones I don't use a lot.

Again, this sheet is MUCH better. I'm sure there will be people that don't like it, but you've got a fan here.

[JD-95]

Another thing I don't see people mention is the Focus Points part. Why is there just 3 slots when Focus Points won't be limited to 3 after the Remaster?

[The Raven Black]

JD-95 wrote:

Another thing I don't see people mention is the Focus Points part. Why is there just 3 slots when Focus Points won't be limited to 3 after the Remaster?

The cap at 3 Focus Points will still be there in Remastered.

It's the refocus cap between encounters that is changed.

[Agara]

The Raven Black wrote:

JD-95 wrote:

Another thing I don't see people mention is the Focus Points part. Why is there just 3 slots when Focus Points won't be limited to 3 after the Remaster?

The cap at 3 Focus Points will still be there in Remastered.

It's the refocus cap between encounters that is changed.

Yeah I thought you'd be able to refocus and recover more than one point at a time. It seems odd having the old rule on the character sheet for the new version.

[Tusk the Half-Orc]

Agara wrote:

The Raven Black wrote:

JD-95 wrote:

Another thing I don't see people mention is the Focus Points part. Why is there just 3 slots when Focus Points won't be limited to 3 after the Remaster?

The cap at 3 Focus Points will still be there in Remastered.

It's the refocus cap between encounters that is changed.

Yeah I thought you'd be able to refocus and recover more than one point at a time. It seems odd having the old rule on the character sheet for the new version.

As I read it*, you still only recover one Focus Point each time you Refocus, but there is no limit on how many times you can Refocus before you next spend a Focus Point. So if you have 3 Focus Points in your pool and you spend them all during a combat, if you take half an hour to Refocus three times, you regain all 3 Focus Points.

*ETA: By “it,” I mean the description of the updated Refocus exploration action in the Remaster Core Preview (p. 5):

“Requirements You have a focus pool. You spend 10 minutes performing deeds to restore your magical connection. This restores 1 Focus Point to your focus pool. The deeds you need to perform are specified in the class or ability that gives you your focus spells. These deeds can usually overlap with other tasks that relate to the source of your focus spells. For instance, a cleric with focus spells from a holy deity can usually Refocus while tending the wounds of their allies.”

The requirements for the current Refocus action are: “ You have a focus pool, and you have spent at least 1 Focus Point since you last regained any Focus Points.”

[Staffan Johansson]

Agara wrote:

The Raven Black wrote:

JD-95 wrote:

Another thing I don't see people mention is the Focus Points part. Why is there just 3 slots when Focus Points won't be limited to 3 after the Remaster?

The cap at 3 Focus Points will still be there in Remastered.

It's the refocus cap between encounters that is changed.

Yeah I thought you'd be able to refocus and recover more than one point at a time. It seems odd having the old rule on the character sheet for the new version.

My understanding is that the Remaster gets rid of the rule about maxing out your potential Focus points at the amount you had after the last time you refocused. In 2.0, even if you have three focus points and spend them all in one encounter, you will then be limited to one focus point for the rest of the day (unless you take the various feats). So three focus points is still "one focus spell per encounter" with two additional focus spells over the course of the whole day. The remaster removes this limit, but the baseline is still one focus per 10 minutes. The focus-enhancing feat that usually shows up at around level 10 instead just changes it so you recover two focus points (or maybe all of them) with a single 10-minute breather.

[Tusk the Half-Orc]

On a different topic, I’d like to see more space for class/subclass features that would naturally go together. For example, the exemplar’s three Ikons - I can put two of them in the Equipment boxes on page 2 (Worn Items for the Worn Ikon and Held Items for the Weapon Ikon), but where does the Body Ikon go? In the box for “Appearance” on page 3? I can try to squeeze them all into the box for 1st level Class Feats and Features, but even if it works for the exemplar’s Ikons, it absolutely doesn’t work for the animist’s Apparitions, subclass feat, and subclass action if I want to include any information about them at all beyond the name, without writing in teeny tiny handwriting that my middle-aged eyes would have trouble reading (even if my handwriting were better).

[Staffan Johansson]

Some other notes on the sheet:
Page 1
"Skill notes" needs to be in line with the overall skills header, because right now it blocks Acrobatics from having any notes.
Ideally, the "Traits and notes" section on weapons needs to be bigger. Fitting something like "Agile, Finesse, Thrown 10 ft., Versatile S" in there is going to be a challenge, and if you then add some runes on that it's going to be a nightmare.
Also, ranged strikes need a "range" box.

Page 2
Should be split into two pages. Put inventory on its own page, along with room for carried items. The allotted space there is barely enough to fit a starting character's equipment on it. PC are pack rats and always grab everything that isn't nailed down, and if they can bend it loose it wasn't really nailed down now was it?
The additional space can be used for just "other feats and abilities". The existing page is already useless for rogues and investigators with their extra skill feats, and it's not uncommon for other abilities, or perhaps story events, to grant additional abilities that also need somewhere to go. Maybe Languages could go here to make some room on page 1 for more traits?

Page 3 seems fine.

Page 4
I'd rather see a spell sheet with distinct boxes for spells It would also be good to have them split into one "first spell page" with things like spell DC/attacks, focus spells, and spell slots take up some room, and one "continuing spells page" that just has more room for spells.
Oh, and "Spells remaining" should be "Spells expended". That way you put a tally mark when you cast a spell, and then erase them all when you rest. Doing it the other way means you need to count down and erase every time you cast a spell.

Additional notes: Needs a companion sheet and probably a crafting sheet (particularly for alchemists but also for others who like to craft stuff).

Edit: Perhaps with a larger-scale overhaul, Strikes, AC, saves, and hp could be moved to its own combat page and combined with Actions & Activities and Free Actions & Reactions from page 3, which would then give page 3 room to have more campaign-oriented stuff. The space on page 1 could be used for more lore skills as well as additional skill notes. So the overall page count would be:
1: Basic stuff, skills.
2: Class & Feats stuff.
3: Combat.
4: Inventory.
5: Character & Campaign.

Plus optional:
6: Basic spells.
7: Expanded spells.
8: Companion.
9: Crafting.

[Laclale♪]

companion/familiar sheet and pet sheet can be the same one.
Crafting sheet: For Scrounger's formula in brain feature.

[Dancing Wind]

Personally, I love that the spells areas are NOT boxed or lined.

Depending on my familiarity with the spell, I may or may not need those details. Sometimes I only need the name of the spell and a range.

Other times I write/print in larger and smaller letters to squeeze more information into the same amount of space. It really irks me when I can't squish in an extra line by writing smaller.

If I need to distinguish the spells, it's easy enough to scribe a line under the verbiage for one spell and box it off before I start another spell.

I appreciate the flexibility of the open spacing. I can actually get a lot more information onto the sheet without all those lines and boxes.

[Errenor]

What I personally absolutely need in a character sheet in adddition to what there is now:
1) on the 1st page a lot of place for character statuses and your activated effects/spells, each section the size of the whole Hit Points or Saves area.
More Lore skills. 2 is never enough: additional lores from pfs, feats and so on.
Yes, absolutely a MAP space.
2) Twice the current space for inventory. There's so much items... Probably another section for stored items not needed, but possible.
3) Gold count absolutely is and should be a decimal number: [PG.SC] If getting rid of copper and silver is not possible, at least the order of windows must be P G S C.
4) Campaign notes in this format are useless: not nearly enough space. There should be just simple ruled pages for all notes. Yes, you can get them anywhere else, but why should you? Additional lineated pages in pdf cost almost nothing.
5) Actions and activities should have lines
6) Spells used(yes) should have enough space to fit 4 two-digit numbers separated by commas and marks below them. I numerate all spells and put prepared spells by numbers there (for prepared casters, of course).
7) Focus spells area should be about twice the size, and cantrips one-and-half-size.
There should be some space for staves, wands, spellhearts, just a couple of simple lines.
8) Spells area should have lines. Boxes aren't a good idea, but lines are essential, sheets become badly readable without them.
9) There should be an additional (optional) spells page.
I won't use official sheets in this version, of course. But they are much better then the old ones. Not enough, sadly.
I use edited by me Booklet Character Sheets from Reddit resources page. As they are they have a couple of errors and bad choices in there. Here's mine version for reference: Full doc, Additional page with more weapons Not perfect even for me, but at least useable. Of course you print only the pages you need, and I do it as half-pages in landscape.

[Staffan Johansson]

Errenor wrote:

I use edited by me Booklet Character Sheets from Reddit resources page. As they are they have a couple of errors and bad choices in there. Here's mine version for reference: Full doc, Additional page with more weapons Not perfect even for me, but at least useable. Of course you print only the pages you need, and I do it as half-pages in landscape.

Those look pretty nice. I don't suppose you have one with the extra weapons page integrated?

[JD-95]

Agara wrote:

The Raven Black wrote:

Another thing I don't see people mention is the Focus Points part. Why is there just 3 slots when Focus Points won't be limited to 3 after the Remaster?

The cap at 3 Focus Points will still be there in Remastered.

It's the refocus cap between encounters that is changed.

From the Core Preview PDF: "Abilities that give you focus spells no longer mention how many Focus Points they add to your pool because the rules have been simplified: The maximum number of Focus Points in your pool is always equal to the number of focus spells you know."

So if you know more than three Focus Spells, you have more than three Focus Points max.

[Errenor]

Staffan Johansson wrote:

Errenor wrote:

I use edited by me Booklet Character Sheets from Reddit resources page. As they are they have a couple of errors and bad choices in there. Here's mine version for reference: Full doc, Additional page with more weapons Not perfect even for me, but at least useable. Of course you print only the pages you need, and I do it as half-pages in landscape.

Those look pretty nice. I don't suppose you have one with the extra weapons page integrated?

Well, I could make one later, but I didn't see much sense in it as I print them selectively page-by-page anyway and not always even in the order as in the pdf.

[Staffan Johansson]

Errenor wrote:

Staffan Johansson wrote:

Errenor wrote:

I use edited by me Booklet Character Sheets from Reddit resources page. As they are they have a couple of errors and bad choices in there. Here's mine version for reference: Full doc, Additional page with more weapons Not perfect even for me, but at least useable. Of course you print only the pages you need, and I do it as half-pages in landscape.

Those look pretty nice. I don't suppose you have one with the extra weapons page integrated?

Well, I could make one later, but I didn't see much sense in it as I print them selectively page-by-page anyway and not always even in the order as in the pdf.

Ah, I see. It helps when printing them as a booklet – I can tell Acrobat Reader to print pages 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 9, 10, 3 as a booklet and get two sheets of paper that I can just fold and have a fine booklet of a sheet. But I can't incorporate a page from a second file without serious shenanigans.

[Errenor]

Staffan Johansson wrote:

Errenor wrote:

Staffan Johansson wrote:

Errenor wrote:

I use edited by me Booklet Character Sheets from Reddit resources page. As they are they have a couple of errors and bad choices in there. Here's mine version for reference: Full doc, Additional page with more weapons Not perfect even for me, but at least useable. Of course you print only the pages you need, and I do it as half-pages in landscape.

Those look pretty nice. I don't suppose you have one with the extra weapons page integrated?

Well, I could make one later, but I didn't see much sense in it as I print them selectively page-by-page anyway and not always even in the order as in the pdf.

Ah, I see. It helps when printing them as a booklet – I can tell Acrobat Reader to print pages 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 9, 10, 3 as a booklet and get two sheets of paper that I can just fold and have a fine booklet of a sheet. But I can't incorporate a page from a second file without serious shenanigans.

Here you go.

I think I'd tinker with it a little bit more later, try to adapt for the remaster.

[The Raven Black]

JD-95 wrote:

Agara wrote:

The Raven Black wrote:

Another thing I don't see people mention is the Focus Points part. Why is there just 3 slots when Focus Points won't be limited to 3 after the Remaster?

The cap at 3 Focus Points will still be there in Remastered.

It's the refocus cap between encounters that is changed.

From the Core Preview PDF: "Abilities that give you focus spells no longer mention how many Focus Points they add to your pool because the rules have been simplified: The maximum number of Focus Points in your pool is always equal to the number of focus spells you know."

So if you know more than three Focus Spells, you have more than three Focus Points max.

Found it :

Luis Loza wrote:

No need for a link! I'm here to let you know that Focus Pools are still capped at a maximum of 3 Focus Points.

[Staffan Johansson]

Errenor wrote:

Here you go.

I think I'd tinker with it a little bit more later, try to adapt for the remaster.

Awesome! Thanks!

[JD-95]

The Raven Black wrote:

JD-95 wrote:

Agara wrote:

The Raven Black wrote:

Another thing I don't see people mention is the Focus Points part. Why is there just 3 slots when Focus Points won't be limited to 3 after the Remaster?

The cap at 3 Focus Points will still be there in Remastered.

It's the refocus cap between encounters that is changed.

From the Core Preview PDF: "Abilities that give you focus spells no longer mention how many Focus Points they add to your pool because the rules have been simplified: The maximum number of Focus Points in your pool is always equal to the number of focus spells you know."

So if you know more than three Focus Spells, you have more than three Focus Points max.

Found it :

Luis Loza wrote:

No need for a link! I'm here to let you know that Focus Pools are still capped at a maximum of 3 Focus Points.

Ooh thanks! They really should have added that info to the document. The way it's written is really unclear

[ZamuelNow]

Physically printing out the previous and the new character sheet reveals interesting differences to the first page. Had to wait a bit so it wasn't a kneejerk reaction. It's weird that it feels like the new one has less space than the old, even though the two sheets are so similar. A lot has to do with font size, specific usage of bold lettering, a larger margin on top, and the huge block of space for "Skill Notes". Arguably, the Skill Notes block feels like the only true misstep since, what's supposed to go there? Removing it allows for expanding the Strikes and would alleviate some of the problems people have mentioned. Other than that, the two Page 1s are equal, if not the new one pulling ahead.

Note: This observation was made with printing in black & white. If printed in color, the new Page 1 probably pulls way ahead.

[Dancing Wind]

ZamuelNow wrote:

Arguably, the Skill Notes block feels like the only true misstep since, what's supposed to go there?

I use it for notes about ancestry, class, and feat boosts that are circumstantial. The bonus is the minimum that always applies, the Skill Notes space reminds me to use niche bonuses that I'd otherwise forget.

[Staffan Johansson]

ZamuelNow wrote:

Arguably, the Skill Notes block feels like the only true misstep since, what's supposed to go there?

There are quite a few instances of permanent but situational bonuses characters can have to skills. For example, my sorcerer has a +2 circumstance bonus to ID plant/fungi from a verdant staff.

[anoretu95]

Since I still found the new version too crowded, I thought about what I could do and tried something on my own. In fact, it could have been a much simpler and cleaner.