Fungal Creature template and creature types...

[Professor Sunshine]

I saw that the Fungal Nymph has the Fey subtype and it raised a question. If a humanoid becomes a fungal creature, does it still count as a humanoid for meeting prerequisites for abilities that require a living humanoid?

[DeathlessOne]

That's a tricky one for one specific reason: the humanoid type is a unique one. It (as far as I know) the only one the comes with a subtype built in to represent the type of humanoid it originated from. Humans are Humanoid (humans). Humans that become undead are usually Undead (augmented human) ... NOT 'humanoid'.

I would say that, no. A Fungal Human would no longer count as the "humanoid" type for abilities. It would be a Plant (augmented human). It would be a living creature and there may be SOME abilities or templates that would still work so long as they reference 'humanoids' in general appearance (two legs, two arms, head, etc) and not the specific type. Just like a Humanoid (human) bane arrow won't work on an Undead (augmented human) and requires an Undead bane arrow instead. You'd need a template to specific a living corporeal creature like the Fungal Creature template does if you plan on future templating.

[Azothath]

Human(oid) comes as a type and subtype. You can see this with Cassisian where it changes from a helm to a outsider angel-like human form.
unlike their namesake cassis which just give people the vapors and ask, how many helmets can dance on the head of a pin?...

[Darigaaz the Igniter]

Please make sure not to confuse Humanoid (the creature type) with humanoid (the general body plan). The former has rules associated with it, the latter is a descriptor.

[Professor Sunshine]

Thank you all for your responses! Darigaaz the Igniter raises my next question. I'm using third party material in a campaign for my nephews. This is the particular ability in question.

https://libraryofmetzofitz.fandom.com/wiki/Kinetic_Lich?so=search

It doesn't specify the humanoid TYPE. It just says a living humanoid. So would this fall into that category? With the exception of select third party material, I'm trying to keep things as rules legal as possible because it will be applied to both them and the villain. I don't want any GM fudge factoring.

[Azothath]

Professor Sunshine wrote:

... the particular ability in question.

libraryofmetzofitz --> How to become a Kinetic Lich {ed}
...

that rule references the Humanoid type as there is nothing to suggest otherwise. If they had used "human" it could be the subtype or shape (and why I used the parenthetical).

I think you are just over-reading the text.
There are "key words" or phrases with a defined meaning in PF1, and humanoid is one.

Nymph CG Medium fey CR:7
plus Fungal template so now CG Medium plant CR:8
Create Spawn clearly kills the host "Once a creature fully transforms into a fungal spawn, the corpse from which it grew is destroyed." and now is of Plant type.

Given that definition and logic, you should set a Know:Nature DC to determine that as the Player must succeed on that knowledge check to 'know' that information. Don't just give it out for free as their assumptions could have a big RP impact. IMO 15-20 is reasonable.

[Professor Sunshine]

Thank you, Azothath! While we're on the topic, what would happen if a fungal creature managed to become a ghost? Would it lose the Poison Spore Cloud ability or would it produce incorporeal spore?

[Azothath]

omgosh, don't you know not to apply multiple templates! LOL The more you stack the weirder it gets especially when changing types.

So ghosts are specifically thematic & emotional encounters.
the Template says "Special Attacks: A ghost retains all the special attacks of the base creature, but any relying on physical contact do not function. In addition, a ghost gains one ghost special attack from the list below for every 3 points of CR (minimum 1—the first ability chosen must always be corrupting touch). The save DC against a ghost's special attack is equal to 10 + 1/2 ghost's HD + ghost's Charisma modifier unless otherwise noted. Additional ghost abilities beyond these can be designed at the GM's discretion. "
To me, breathing in spores requires both to be physical which will hit Fungal's Poison Spore Cloud and Create Spawn. The ghost may have a cloud of spores(flavor/stylistic effect) but can't spawn fungal creatures (it's Undead now).

ADVICE

To be balanced, I'd think I'd replace it with a Spawn Spore Zombie (Su)(SSZombie) which is normally for vermin moving it to humanoids and mon humanoids. I'd move SSZombie to CR:+0 and the Spore Cloud at only at SSZombie destruction in Reach+5ft with Nauseated for 1d6 then Sickened for 1d6r with no chance of spawning - it just makes a fungal dead mess and inhibits Raise Dead for the ex-zombified (aka Quick Composting)... the zombie nauseating cloud [poison] needs to have a threatening DC to ensure they are viable traps/threats. It needs a descriptor for defenses (aka Neutralize Poison).
Thematically I'd look at Plant domain Aura of Decay (Su). It adds a menacing touch and lets you know the BBEG is recycling the living.

[Professor Sunshine]

Thank you so, so much, Azothath! I'm definitely incorporating that into my campaign. But, yeah. I'm stacking the crap out of this thing because my nephews challenged me to make a campaign that was like a cross between Dragon Ball Z, The Infinity Gauntlet, and Dead Space. They wanted a final fight to end all final fights.

So I've given them each gems that give them Kineticist class features to control facets of reality. They are min-maxing to the extreme and tearing across the multiverse. The BBEG has a completely absurd stat block where I have been exploring the limits of what a player can become if given the storyline. It can one-shot anything I've seen a stat block for and traverse the Dimension of Time on a whim but uses its power just to manipulate them into creating it.

So they die and become ghosts, have psychic duels with enhanced Vault Giants to possess them and use their bodies to become Kinetic Liches, get dragged into the Plane of Shadow and become Apostle Kytons, and escape to the Abyss and perform quests for Demon Lords to become half-fiends. With a few magic items in the mix, they'll have Charisma scores that are over 100 and use it for Str/Dex/Int checks, Fort/Will saves, attack and damage rolls, and a ridiculous number of abilities.

They'll find the villain they've been fighting is one of many versions of them across parallel realities that's creating an army to fight a version of them that possessed a fungal charnel colossus. That version, Professor Sunshine, has created a timeless demiplane from which it launches fungal necrotech constructs across the multiverse to infect everyone and everything before having them merge into charnel colossi and plane shifting add to with the Blood Moon.

They'll have to fight the moon in starships, make their way to the surface and lead armies of themselves against armies of infected to destroy the Lich at the heart of the planet. I figure that is the biggest possible finale given the criteria they gave me.

[Azothath]

I want to reply but this is the Rules forum and not the place for other topics AND I gave my one post of Advice. I created this thread for you.