I wonder why can paizo that already borrow alot from 4 to take its saves sytstem because current saves system create inherent imabalnce between stats by making dex con and wis inherintly more desirable stats than str cha and int.So from my persecrtive there should option to use them for saves as well:
Str for fort saves
cha for will saves
int for reflex saves
So you dont have to always take same stats just to keep you saves high.It is also open door for a lot of new builds and make medium armor more valuable
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I feel like a model like this would make some stats overly powerful. Strength and Charisma are too very powerful stats in this in edition, making them also key saves would move up a further tier which is probably counter to the goal of stat spreads as they stand.
A champion, for instance, who is already focused on Strength and Charisma, being able to move their saves from their current secondary stats to their primary stats, would be too strong.
I feel like a model like this would make some stats overly powerful. Strength and Charisma are too very powerful stats in this in edition, making them also key saves would move up a further tier which is probably counter to the goal of stat spreads as they stand.
A champion, for instance, who is already focused on Strength and Charisma, being able to move their saves from their current secondary stats to their primary stats, would be too strong.
In case strength there not much changes because classes that max strength would max their constitution as well only big differnce here is high level where via apex item you can gain +7 to your specific stat
Champion who dump wisdom over charisma is still sacrifice his pecrception and thus initviative in many cases and also give up medicine which one of the most crucial skills in game so i wont say that is really making him that overpowered
I wonder why can paizo that already borrow alot from 4 to take its saves sytstem because current saves system create inherent imabalnce between stats by making dex con and wis inherintly more desirable stats than str cha and int.So from my persecrtive there should option to use them for saves as well:
Str for fort saves
cha for will saves
int for reflex saves
So you dont have to always take same stats just to keep you saves high.It is also open door for a lot of new builds and make medium armor more valuable
The main reason IMO was to diminish the edition change impact.
I have ear that during playtest the designers considered to change atributes and saves to different ones. But the decided to not do this to prevent the game becoming mechanically to different from PF1 and D&D.
These alternative saves can be found in GMG Alternative Scores:
The classic ability scores aren't of equal value in the rules. Dexterity, Constitution, and Wisdom tend to be more important unless a character requires a particular ability score from among the other three for a specific purpose. If you'd prefer ability scores to all be of roughly equivalent value in character building, this variant creates six ability scores that are in much closer balance with each other. Make the following changes.
Strength does everything that both Strength and Constitution do in the Core Rulebook, and Constitution is gone. A character uses their Strength for melee weapon and unarmed attack rolls, damage rolls, Athletics, Hit Points, Fortitude saves, and so on.
Dexterity splits into two ability scores. The first, still called Dexterity, represents manual dexterity and applies to ranged weapon and unarmed attack rolls, attack and damage rolls with finesse attacks (if better than Strength), and Thievery checks. Agility, which represents footwork, applies to Armor Class, Reflex saves, Acrobatics checks, and Stealth checks.
Charisma applies to Will saves instead of Wisdom.
Wisdom is otherwise unchanged.
Intelligence is unchanged.
You'll need a small number of gameplay tweaks. Anklets of alacrity become an Agility apex item, both the belt of giant strength and belt of regeneration become Strength apex items, and so on. The rogue's thief racket is obsolete, so you might allow rogues to choose a different racket but still gain Thievery. For anything else that references an ability score, such as feats with a Dexterity prerequisite, decide with your group whether Dexterity or Agility makes more sense as the prerequisite. For instance, Agility would make sense for Feather Step since that feat involves footwork. Prewritten NPCs and monsters can just use their Dexterity modifier when their Agility modifier is necessary.
This variant rule would be very strong for Kineticists, helps Str builds and helps the Swashbucler damage a bit.
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This just sounds like everyone having high saves and nobody having low saves
Personally I'm not a huge fan. But it's also not game breaking. Just sounds like homogenization
I wonder why can paizo that already borrow alot from 4 to take its saves sytstem because current saves system create inherent imabalnce between stats by making dex con and wis inherintly more desirable stats than str cha and int.So from my persecrtive there should option to use them for saves as well:
Str for fort saves
cha for will saves
int for reflex saves
So you dont have to always take same stats just to keep you saves high.It is also open door for a lot of new builds and make medium armor more valuable
Reflex is already separated between Strength and Dexterity. So your system would put 2 saves on Strength.
I wonder if any change would help. Wisdom for initiative/perception and Constitution for hit points will certainly stay as they are, and Reflex being already split between 2 stats, it may in fact change close to nothing to optimal stat spread.
Would this be applied on the NPC/monster side as well, or is it just envisioned as a PC thing? Because homogenizing saves will have the biggest impact on spell casting.
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Would this be applied on the NPC/monster side as well, or is it just envisioned as a PC thing? Because homogenizing saves will have the biggest impact on spell casting.
When I use the monster creation rules
Their ability modifier seems completely separate and somewhat arbitrary from their saves
Much more abstract and more akin to aesthetic
I wonder why can paizo that already borrow alot from 4 to take its saves sytstem because current saves system create inherent imabalnce between stats by making dex con and wis inherintly more desirable stats than str cha and int.So from my persecrtive there should option to use them for saves as well:
Str for fort saves
cha for will saves
int for reflex saves
So you dont have to always take same stats just to keep you saves high.It is also open door for a lot of new builds and make medium armor more valuableReflex is already separated between Strength and Dexterity. So your system would put 2 saves on Strength.
I wonder if any change would help. Wisdom for initiative/perception and Constitution for hit points will certainly stay as they are, and Reflex being already split between 2 stats, it may in fact change close to nothing to optimal stat spread.
Str is not fully cover reflex saves you can only use it against damage effects unless you take sentinel and even then you still ended up with 4+ at max.So now maxing int will become option for characters that dont have it as main stat
And i agree that con and wis still remain strong but they will become at least a bit less essential| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
IMO the GMG Alternative Scores variant rule solves this question. I just disagree that Will could be better if it was Int instead of Cha.
Personally I liked the 4e system where everything had a save, since it made save targeting easier, but it does make for more defenses to factor.
Personally I don't hate the current setup; cha and int have very powerful skills attached to them; provided your game isn't just a hack and slash, and even though str only has one skill, it's a pretty good skill; and it's benefit to melee damage is pretty solid