Goblin Burn-it Feat says:
Fire fascinates you. Your spells and alchemical items that deal fire damage gain a status bonus to damage equal to half the spell's level or one-quarter the item's level (minimum 1). You also gain a +1 status bonus to any persistent fire damage you deal.
Elemental Wisps (the familiar) says:
- Resonance (aura) 30 feet. Your wisp vibrates at a frequency attuned to their element, resonating with and empowering all effects sharing that trait. Creatures in the area gain a +1 status bonus to damage rolls for alchemical and magical effects with the same elemental trait as your wisp. If your wisp is a wood wisp, the status bonus also applies to damage rolls for effects with the plant trait.
Is this an indicator that the goblin burn-it feat will be revised during remaster to work with fire kineticist impulses?
Maybe. Due a lore point of view make sense that Goblins goes be benefit from fire impulse too.
About Elemental Wisps this part "alchemical and magical" was removed/don't exists in AoN basically allowing it to works with Impulses too.
Maybe, maybe not.
Kinda hope not. We'll see though.
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I think it should work, so I hope it will in Remastered.
There's no reason to speculate what changes will happen to Goblin in Player Core. It might have the wording changed, it might not, but right now it doesn't work and that's what matters.
YuriP wrote: About Elemental Wisps this part "alchemical and magical" was removed/don't exists in AoN basically allowing it to works with Impulses too. Even with that part it would have worked: impulses are still magical effects as far as I remember.
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It's not removed, it's getting added. OP posted the wording of the ability in Rage of Elements, where the Elemental Wisp is being re-printed.
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Really don't think the goblin needs this.
Cordell Kintner wrote: There's no reason to speculate what changes will happen to Goblin in Player Core. It might have the wording changed, it might not, but right now it doesn't work and that's what matters. I agree it doesn't work right now. But PC1 wording is set in stone at this point so it is possible for a Paizo representative to reference it and say yes or no. Hence the thread.
There are other interaction examples that need some interim clarification before the remaster is done. Like the elemental blasts say 'make an impulse attack' but never use the word strike. But there are lots of feats that say 'when you use a melee or ranged strike' (as opposed to melee weapon strike or ranged weapon strike, etc.) and it isn't clear if the elemental blasts simply don't interact at all with a good chunk of content or whether this is a remaster change in lexicon coming.
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I agree that right now "Burn It!" does not grant the status bonus to fire impulses (though the language about persistent damage should still apply).
We'll see if this changes in the remaster, but I think it's plausible that Paizo would not want to put very strong pressure on pyrokineticists to be at least adopted by goblins.
Red Griffyn wrote: Cordell Kintner wrote: There's no reason to speculate what changes will happen to Goblin in Player Core. It might have the wording changed, it might not, but right now it doesn't work and that's what matters. I agree it doesn't work right now. But PC1 wording is set in stone at this point so it is possible for a Paizo representative to reference it and say yes or no. Hence the thread.
There are other interaction examples that need some interim clarification before the remaster is done. Like the elemental blasts say 'make an impulse attack' but never use the word strike. But there are lots of feats that say 'when you use a melee or ranged strike' (as opposed to melee weapon strike or ranged weapon strike, etc.) and it isn't clear if the elemental blasts simply don't interact at all with a good chunk of content or whether this is a remaster change in lexicon coming.
Paizo staff are unlikely to respond to threads like this though. They have mentioned elsewhere they are working on a publication to bridge the gap between Rage of the Elements and Player Core, but that's more likely to be things like "the Tanglefoot spell is now called Entangling Vine" and "what does the concentrate trait mean now that verbal components are gone." It does seem meant to address "will you be changing old content to let it stack with new content in ways it seems unlikely to be intended."
I'm not sure "Elemental blasts aren't strikes" is really a thing that needs clarifying either. That sounds more like an "it would be cool if" type thing.
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Given they were strikes in the playtest but are not anymore, I don't think there's much ambiguity of intention here. Expecting every feat in the game to be rewritten to accommodate blasts instead of just leaving blasts as strikes doesn't make sense.
PossibleCabbage wrote: I agree that right now "Burn It!" does not grant the status bonus to fire impulses (though the language about persistent damage should still apply).
We'll see if this changes in the remaster, but I think it's plausible that Paizo would not want to put very strong pressure on pyrokineticists to be at least adopted by goblins.
Lots of people wanted a single target DPR kineticist. That feat gets you like a 5-10% bump depending on your action sequence. Its not going to make or break anyone's game since single target DPR is already pretty low and this would require significant feat investment (coming form another ancestry or leaving goblinhood for something better like human for another 1st level feat or multi-talented at L9).
In truth, it is likely going to be a better turn for pyrokineticist to have their nimbus stance, weakness aura, their impulse junction (which works on 2 action impulses like flying flame), and then use flying flame + a strike to maximize damage. I don't think the 1-4 damage is going to matter on impulses that scale at 1D6 or 1D8/2 levels with the impulse junction (basically adds the equivalent of 1 extra dice by L19) or 1-4 damage at a ~50-60% chance to hit (i.e., or like 2 DPR or less per strike) by L20.
Pyro is already a pretty restrictive play style since there are very few impulses that aren't overflow and you are heavily incentivized to not overflow so that your aura remains online in-between turns so creatures starting in your aura or entering it get hit with your aura junction + nimbus stance.
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Captain Morgan wrote: Given they were strikes in the playtest but are not anymore, I don't think there's much ambiguity of intention here. Expecting every feat in the game to be rewritten to accommodate blasts instead of just leaving blasts as strikes doesn't make sense. No one expects anything. The question is what is intentional and what is not intentional. Clarification would be nice. The 1 page sidebar clearly did not resolve all the questions.
They could literally change any single lexicon and its hard to tell if the book is showing a precursor to that intentional change or not. For example, flat-footed which is pretty fundamental is being replaced and no one has any confusion or need for 'every feat to be re-written' because its a simple X=Y substitution.
Asking questions of the game designers isn't a bad thing and they do sometimes provide clarification. If you guys have a better place to ask these questions than the rules section on the game developer's own forum, then please let me know and I'll ask the questions there.
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PossibleCabbage wrote: I agree that right now "Burn It!" does not grant the status bonus to fire impulses (though the language about persistent damage should still apply).
We'll see if this changes in the remaster, but I think it's plausible that Paizo would not want to put very strong pressure on pyrokineticists to be at least adopted by goblins.
That last point is very good and hits the nail on the head. How do you make an Ancestry with a strong theme without making it the One and True way to build a character that fits the theme ?
I'm OK with Goblins being better at burning things, but that should not force every would-be master of fire to be a Goblin.
So, the current bonus from Burn It feels both too strong AND not applicable by RAW to things that should thematically benefit from it.
Definitely a candidate for redesign during Remastered IMO.
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I know I might get spanked for this. But I am in favor of Burn It! be nerfed or removed from the remaster.
As already mentioned it creates unnecessary pressure for fire damage based characters to play goblins or get it via Adopted Ancestry.
The curious thing is that this doesn't even exist for ifrits, only for goblins.
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I think it falls into the trap of vertical progression.
You add Damage to Damage. Essentially making an effect directly stronger.
If it was, like most options, horizontal bonus, then it would have been easier to incorporate and balance it.
The flavour being that goblin love fire and feel ecstatic about it could easily be something like:
"you feel invigorated by seeing your actions cause fire, gain X temp hp until the start of your next turn when an effect from you causes fire damage"
Now instead of Vertical boost (damage added to damage) you have horizontal one (survivability added to damage).
That would be much easier to balance and it still plays into the theme of reveling when things around you burn.
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Before people go off shouting the sky is falling and that every fire bender must be a goblin consider these computed damage turns:
DPR Calculations
The optimal turn for a fire kineticist is not going to care about +1 to +4 on a 50-60% hit. The best turn is flying flame in your aura (especially expanded aura at L10, with a single strike). MOST (like 75%+) of your damage is from the aura, not a paltry +1 to +4 status bonus with 50-60% chance to hit on a single strike. Even in a strikex3 pattern it doesn't matter vs getting a second target in your aura.
The best turn you can have will like be spending that 3rd action to move instead of striking so you get 2+ enemies in your aura and then use flying flame to hit as many enemies as possible to re-trigger the weakness.
It isn't real vertical progression because it is rewarding a sub-optimal style of game-play. That makes it more akin to horizontal progression because it slightly makes a sub-optimal strategy slightly better (again 5-10% tops).
We don't need to obsess over this being some ungodly optimization need that now we'll only see fire goblins who strikex3 every turn. You know what is more optimal? Being a human for an extra 1st level feat or half elf for multi-talented into thaumaturge or monk at L9 so you can boost you bad will save to Master at L12, being a dwarf for the extra hp from mountain stoutness, taking the 'get two skill proficiency' feats, etc.
The Burn-it feat is flavourful and absolutely on point with goblins. It should work.
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1-4 damage is the same as changing d6s to d8s for your blasts without having to spend 2 actions on it.
Claiming that adding damage on damage is not vertical, when it is the definition of it, seems weird as well.
The flavour is preserved 100% even if you switch the bonus you gain when you deal damage to avoid the troublesome "stacking" issues that arise when you simply pile the same benefit over the base effect.
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There's something you're all not noticing...
Burn It! is a Status Bonus. But you already get a status bonus to Basic Blasts based on your Con (If using 2 actions), so those won't stack.
Burn It! is also a bonus based on the level of the spell/item, not on the damage die. So if it worked with Impulses, it would be an auto scaling +1 that ends up at +5 at level 20, without having to use any additional resources.
"Oh but it works on Cantrips and those are infinite!" yes but the Kineticist equivalent is a 2 Action Basic Blast and those already get a higher Status bonus equal to your Con, so it wouldn't even work on those.
I don't think it will be edited in the remaster to also include impulses, since the current ability doesn't even work with Strikes. It's 100% intended to only work on Spells and Alchemical items.
shroudb wrote: 1-4 damage is the same as changing d6s to d8s for your blasts without having to spend 2 actions on it.
Claiming that adding damage on damage is not vertical, when it is the definition of it, seems weird as well.
The flavour is preserved 100% even if you switch the bonus you gain when you deal damage to avoid the troublesome "stacking" issues that arise when you simply pile the same benefit over the base effect.
My general position has always been that I won't consider it a vertical progression (or 'power creep' by another name) if it isn't addressing the top line meta build of the game (say top 10 builds to do X thing from a wide variety of classes). Going full 3xElemental Blast with fire may be fun and something people want to do but it isn't the optimal turn/action sequence to get the most DPR out of the class. What this feat does his push that playstyle closer to the optimal one, but it is still a long way off. So I'd call this a failed math fixer feat rather than 'meaningful' vertical progression because it is helping enable (but still fails) a sub-optimal play style. Especially because the kineticist is -1 to -2 behind a martial attack DC for many levels.
Most of your damage comes from your aura + gate junction aura effect. It just completely drowns out any damage from a +1 to +4 static bonus. Its like there is a pimple on your foot that you don't like the look of and so you chop off the entire leg.
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