Figment Familiar Questions

[Hisoka777]

I was researching familiars and stumbled upon the Figment archetype and people keep mentioning taking the Basic Magic evolution. That evolution has the line "The eidolon must have a charisma score of 10 or higher to select this evolution" so my question is, How does a figment familiar even select this evolution?

https://www.aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Familiar%20Figment

https://aonprd.com/SummonerEvolutions.aspx

[Zepheri]

Whit improved familiar you can get a familiar that have charisma 10+

[Hisoka777]

Zepheri wrote:

Whit improved familiar you can get a familiar that have charisma 10+

Unfortunately Figment isn’t compatible with improved familiar.

[Zepheri]

May I ask why?

[Hisoka777]

Because the Figment Archetype replaces the ability “Speak with animals of its own kind” as does improved familiar. Since 2 things modifying a familiar can’t replace the same ability they aren’t compatible.

[Wonderstell]

Chicken?

But I dunno, they must have missed the Cha requirement as very few familiars have enough Cha. Personally I haven't seen many recommendations of the Basic Magic evolution. Seems pretty awful. Usually better to Sage/Figment with some Skilled evolutions.

I will however mention that at one time I thought the familiar could take Shared Evolution which would allow you to get pounce and other goodies from it, making figment extremely good. But that was a misunderstanding because the SRD threw every evolution, even archetype-locked, on the same page.

[Hisoka777]

Is Chicken really the only familiar with a 10+ cha? The only real benefit to the basic magic evolution is for exploiter wizards and arcanists with the Fiendish Proboscis exploit.

[Wonderstell]

Chicken was the one that came to mind. You're free to check the list on Archives for more outliers. Might be one or two more?

And if you want to exploit the exploit, then why not choose an Emissary familiar instead? They get Guidance on tap already at level 1.

[Hisoka777]

Well at least with that I can get my +4 initiative. Loosing share spells hurts but it is what it is.

[Wonderstell]

Oh, if that's a concern then buy it a SLA instead. I know that the Maiden's Helm explicitly gives you an SLA.

[Hisoka777]

Yeah it looks like every archetype that has SLAs loses share spells. Ambassador could be combined with figment but it wouldn’t come online till 10th level.

[Diego Rossi]

Wonderstell wrote:

Chicken was the one that came to mind. You're free to check the list on Archives for more outliers. Might be one or two more?

Familiars with charisma 10+: Kakapo, Meerkat, Peacock, Peafowl, Platypus, Rhamphorhynchus.

I have never looked at the familiar's charisma before, but I fail to see why they have so low values.

CRB wrote:

Charisma (Cha)

Charisma measures a character’s personality, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and appearance.

So, RAW, a cat has the same charisma as an insect. Internet and Facebook are wrong, we should publish cute photos of crickets and locusts.

[Zepheri]

Well put a head band of alluring charisma+6 to the animals and done

[Mysterious Stranger]

Familiars get different stat modifiers based on their species. A cat has a -3 so starts at a 7 CHA, a cockroach has a -8 so starts at a 2 CHA, a chicken gets a +3 so starts as a 13 CHA.

CHA is not just about appearance. Cat’s may look cute but don’t really make good leaders. They don’t give a crap about anything except themselves.

[Diego Rossi]

CHA is how strong your personality is, too. Cats have personality, chickens way less. And I doubt a lot the leadership capabilities of chickens.

For most animals, CHA should be 10.

Check the rule citation, it measures:
- personality - plenty in cats
- personal magnetism - extremely variable
- ability to lead - low in cats
- appearance - high in cats, generally

Using only one of those characteristics to measure a creature's CHA is misusing the stat.

If we use only the ability to lead as our meter, domestic dogs should have 2, as they are followers, not leaders.

[Hisoka777]

So a figment Rhamphorhynchus gets me Fiendish Proboscus abuse as early as level 3. I’ll take that. Then I’ll retrain its feat for mounted combat and have it negate attacks on me with the skilled evolution starting at 7th level. Not too bad.