Skald was very cool; my friend used to play one and had a lot of fun with it.
Now, I think in some capacity, the skalds ideas did transfer to 2e in a much more limited capacity; the barbarian has share rage and an upgrade, but share rage is one target and is a mid level ability, and giving it to everyone is a 20th level capstone; so not very skald like, and no magic. The bard has the warrior muse, which gives access to all martial weapons, but imo it feels a lot more loke fire emblem style dancer than blow the warhorn, we are charging in, fury stoking warrior. An argument can also be made that marshal CAN be skald like with dread marshal stance, but many marshal abilities are also concentrate, and the flavor is much more themed on being a commander; and again, no magic.
Imo, the best way to tackle this is a class archetype for the barbarian. Personally, I could see it working similar to spellshot where it becomes a special instinct; in this case, the instict is themed around party buffing. The dedication grants a pick a list pair of cantrips and the ability to cast spells from the archetype in rage, and has the basic, expert, master casting or bounded casting feats for spontaneous casting, along with a number of skald-y feats to boost your allys that have the rage traits. In my head, the instincts projects an aura that gives a status bonus to damage; this way it can stack with share rage
Skald are basically Rage bards. It's unlikely that Paizo would made them as a new class. Instead is more probably that their abilities appear as Bard feats or maybe as a new Muse (yet it's unlikely once we already have the Warrior muse).
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Another way to do it would be to have the Bard Archetype give the Rage trait to casting composition spells and maybe Bard slot spells when the Archetype is taken by a Barbarian. That makes for a quick and easy houserule until something better comes along.
An actual Skald Archetype would be nice though.
Skald are basically Rage bards. It's unlikely that Paizo would made them as a new class. Instead is more probably that their abilities appear as Bard feats or maybe as a new Muse (yet it's unlikely once we already have the Warrior muse).
I went with a Skald Muse.
My PF2-converted Ironfang Invasion campaign is having a crossover with my previous PF1 Iron Gods campaign. The bloodrager altready appeared, and I ported bloodrager to PF2 as a barbarian instinct that granted Sorcerer Multiclass Dedication. The skald is next.
I decided to playtest the Skald Muse on an enemy NPC.
Richelle Redrage, Halfling Tiefling Skald, Creature 16
NE, Small, Halfling, Tiefling, Humanoid
Perception +28; darkvision
Languages Common, Halfling, Infernal, Skald
Skills Acrobatics +29, Athletics +28, Deception +30, Legal Lore +25, Medicine +25, Occultism +28, Performance +30 (+31 with violin), Society +25, Stealth +28, Thievery +25
Str +1, Dex +5, Con +2, Int +2, Wis +1, Cha +5
Items +2 greater resilient greater slick glamered explorer's clothing, +2 greater striking extending (60 feet) ghost-touch rapier, +2 greater striking flaming shock Handwraps of Mighty Blows, bracelet of dashing, greater ring of cold resistance 10, greater ring of fire resistance 10, swarmeater's clasp, virtuoso violin, calligraphy set, scroll case (magic mailbox), 477 gp in coins and jewelry.
Combat Reading [One Action]
Hellspawn ancestry feat 1, gain Deception, Legal Lore, and Lie to Me
Form of the Fiend ancestry feat 1, tail strike
Devil in Plain Sight [Two Actions] ancestry feat 5
Fiendish Wings [Two Actions] ancestry feat 9, 10 minutes of Fly Speed 25
AC 38; Fort +27, Ref +30, Will +26 resolve
HP 240; resist cold 10, fire 10
Speed 25 feet (and bracelet of dashing)
Melee [Single Action] +2 greater striking extending (60 feet) ghost-touch rapier +32 (Deadly d8, Disarm, Finesse) Damage 3d6 piercing
Melee [Single Action] +2 greater striking flaming shock tail +32 (agile, finesse, unarmed), Damage 2d4 bludgeoning + 1d6 fire + 1d6 electricity
Skald Muse
Your muse is the traditions of your tribe. With your war chants you aid your tribesmen in channeling their rage. If your muse is a creature, it might be a totem animal or the spirit of an ancestor. If it's a diety, it might be Calistria, Gorum, or Eiseth.
You gain the Barbarian Multiclass Dedication and Raging Song. Your Composition spells gain the Rage trait, "You must be raging to use abilities with the rage trait, and they end automatically when you stop raging," and they affect only your allies who accepted your Raging Song.
You add Agitate to your spell repertoise.
Raging Song
Uncommon, Auditory, Bard, Emotion, Enchantment, Rage
Cast [Free Action] verbal
Duration While you Rage.
You sing your rage as a war chant that rouses your tribal allies. Singing Raging Song does not impede other auditory or linquistic abilities. You can Sustain a Spell during your Rage despite the concentration trait.
Your non-fatigued allies within 60 feet who can hear you may take an action to accept the Raging Song. Each one that accepts is affected by the Raging Song as you are, and they Rage during your song even if they ordinarily cannot Rage. An ally with Rage ability may continue their Rage to its usual duration despite your song ending. An ally who was already Raging when they accept your Raging Song starts their Rage anew. Each ally can depart the Raging Song as an action, which ends their Rage and your Composition effects.
Occult Focus Composition Spell (1 focus point)
hymn of healing (fast healing and temp hp 16, sustained up to 4 rounds)
counter performance [Reaction]
Occult Composition Cantrip
Inspire Courage, +1 status bonus to attack rolls, damage rolls, and saves against fear effects.
Occult Spontatneous Spells DC 37, attack +29
8th (3/day)
Antimagic Field
Charm (8th)
Spirit Song
7th (3/day)
Fly (7th) SIGNATURE 4th
Girzanje's March (7th)
Tongues
6th (3/day)
Dominate <30 feet>
True Seeing
Teleport (Cast 10 minutes)
5th (3/day)
Blink Charge
Forceful Hand
Glimmer of Charm
4th (3/day)
Discern Lies
Magic Mailbox
Suggestion
3rd (3/day)
Cozy Cabin
Haste
Heroism SIGNATURE 6th
2nd (3/day)
Illusionary Disguise (2nd)
Invisibility SIGNATURE 4th
Remove Fear
1st (3/day)
Agitate
Fear
Sleep
Soothe SIGNATURE All
Cantrip (8th)
Detect Magic
Haunting Hymn
Infectious Enthusiasm
Message
Prestidigitation
Richelle Redrage is built by the Building Creature rules from the Gamemaster Guide, so she is short on feats and gifted with very good numbers.
She is only 16th level despite facing an oversized party of 18th-level PCs, because she is accompanied by ten 16th-level troop units. I needed her to have allies to test Raging Song. She is a commander in the Ironfang Legion and is invading the town of Emberville.
Unfortunately, the encounter has already begun and it won't be a test of Raging Song. The party already killed four of the troop units while she was too far away. Now she is invisible, hiding inside a house, and Messaging each surviving unit one by one, "The unstoppable Small Boots Chernasardo Elite are here! Retreat toward the Molthune border immediately." If she escapes during Friday's game session, the party will encounter her again in about seven game sessions.
The Skald Muse does not grant the full abilities of a PF1 skald. The character will also need the Warrior Muse for martial weapon proficiency.
In my Iron Gods campaign I saw the difficulties of a party with a skald, her Spell Warrior skald apprentice (Leadership cohort), a bloodrager, and a magus in the same party. The magus could not cast spells while accepting the Raging Song for better damage and the rage power effects. The bloodrager's Bloodrage and the Raging Song were incompatible. The Spell Warrior meshed better, but felt like a different class (see Options for Converting 1e to 2e: Spirit Totem Skald comment #7). I tried to address those problems in the details of my Raging Song, but some other details require feats.
Universal Anthem Feat 4
Bard
Prerequisites skald muse
Your Composition spells affect everyone that the spells usually affect, not just your allies who accepted your Raging Song. If an ally who accepted your Raging Song departs the song, they may continue receiving the effects of your Compositions.
Spell Kenning [Two Actions] Feat 6
Bard
Prerequisites skald muse
Frequency Once per day
You may add one spell or cantrip from any tradition of a level you can cast to your repertoire until your next daily preparations. Use your proficiencies for occult spell attacks and occult spell DCs for your proficiencies with this spell.
Uncanny Dodge Feat 10
Bard or Archetype
Source Core Rulebook pg. 229 4.0
Archetypes Rogue, Shadowdancer
Prerequisites skald muse or appropriate archetype
You gain the Deny Advantage class feature.
This seems incredibly bad. Your non composition spells don't gain the rage trait, so while raging you can't cast most of your non composition spells, and while not raging you can't use your composition spells. With raging song, you can sustain spells at least, but that doesn't make up for the fact that you are always giving up at least half of your kit at any time. Plus, you just can't use Dirge of doom and other compositions that don't affect allies.Skald Muse
Your muse is the traditions of your tribe. With your war chants you aid your tribesmen in channeling their rage. ...
Opinions will differ. The question is whether our views are opinions or solid evaluations of character design.
My goal was to recreate a particular character, the strix skald Kirii from my Iron Gods campaign. She usually fought with a lucerne hammer while singing her Rage Song and diving from the sky. Since PF1 skald like PF1 bard is a six-spell-level, Kirii seldom relied on her spells during combat. Instead, they were for healing and utility. With Spell Kenning she could often pull off the right spell at the right time.
Thus, the Skald Muse's flaw that their non-compostion spells cannot be cast while raging does not bother me at all. The PF2 Skald Muse bard has a much bigger bard spell kit than the PF1 skald, so for legacy reasons I don't want it to contribute as much as possible. My gut feeling is that a raging skald character wants to be hitting people with weapons or directing a warband of barbarians rather than casting spells. Why would anyone want to play a raging class when their goal is to stay out of combat and cast spells instead? If their goal is to befuddle an enemy with a spell before combat, then Cast the Spell first and Rage second.
The Universal Anthem feat 4 will let them use Dirge of Doom on their enemies. I suppose I could make another feat that lets the Skald Muse skald cast non-composition spells while raging, since Moment of Clarity is pretty similar.
Dance of Spellcasting [One Action] Feat 2
Barbarian, Metamagic, Rage
Prerequisites skald muse
Based on Moment of Clarity
You focus your rage into a dance in order to perform clearly. Until the end of this turn, you can use the Cast a Spell or Perform despite their concentrate trait. You may Perform immediately with Performance DC equal to your barbarian class DC for additional benefits.
Critical Success Your ability to Cast a Spell and Perform lasts to the end of your next turn, and you gain a +1 status bonus to your spell attack rolls and spell DCs during that time.
Success Your ability to Cast a Spell and Perform lasts to the end of your next turn.
maybe for an NPC it would be fine, but for a PC? Full spell casting and no marital weapons or medium armor is rough. This is like the war priest but way, way worse, as it can't even use buff spells or heals, and it lacks any proficiencies needed for it to act as a martial. I just can't see this being very fun to play.
Well, I could add to the Skald Muse that Raging Song prevents the -1 penalty to AC from Raging. That would partially correct the lack of medium armor and reduce bothersome bookkeeping when other party members accept the Raging Song. But I had reckoned that the temporary hit points from raging was the equivalent defensive measure.
I had considered having the Skald Muse train the skald in one martial weapon, but decided that that stepped on the domain of the Warrior Muse. Besides, a muse is only as powerful as a class feat, so Skald Muse cannot grant too many special features.
But let's return this discussion to the original topic, do you think that Paizo will publish a PF2 Skald? Will it be its own class, an archetype, a muse for a bard, or an instinct for a barbarian? I think that the conflict between rage and spellcasting cannot be resolved with a single feat.
When I ported the PF1 bloodrager Val Baine to PF2, I made a Bloodline Instinct for barbarian. The spellcasting on her was laughably thin, but it was that way on the PF1 bloodrager, too. And making her resemble the original character took all her feats and left a few gaps. Nevertheless, I came close enough to my goal that a separate PF2 Bloodrager class seems unnecessary.
I am not as confident in my Skald Muse. That is why I created a test character. The skald Kirii packed a lot of shared power into her rage powers. My homebrew does not duplicate that.
Inventing a new muse was the safe method of making a PF2 skald. An archetype would be safe, too. To color outside the lines and free the PF2 skald we need an entire PF2 Skald class.
My notion for a PF2 Skald class would be built around sharing rage powers. The PF2 Barbarian has Share Rage feat 8 which does not share any feats or instinct abilities that resemble rage powers. Contagious Rage feat 20 does share the barbarians instinct abilities and specialization ability, but as Alchemic_Genius pointed out, that is a 20th-level capstone feat, which is not something to base a class upon. Does sharing rage powers fit the tight math of PF2? At least the class would be sufficiently different from bard and barbarian to feel like its own class rather than a spinoff.
I agree with Pronate11. It is an interesting idea to do a homebrew Skald Muse but it's just bad for Bard's spellcasting chassis. Also this didn't feel to be done in a bardy way.
Instead why you didn't take the Battle Oracle "rage" into your muse? Or Boost Eidolon as basis?
So to make it a bard way. The Skald muse will give you Rage Song lvl 1 feat and this feat will give you Agitate to your spell repertoire.
So Rage Song feat will just give you the same name composition spell and Prerequisites Skald Muse (honestly I hate this way how PF2 handle spellcasters lvl 1 feat that requires a subclass feature. But it's already in this way so let's go on).
Rage Song focus cantrip:
Uncommon, Auditory, Bard, Composition, Emotion, Enchantment
Cast [1-Action] verbal
Area 60-foot emanation
Duration 1 round
You sing your rage as a war chant that rouses your tribal allies.
You and all allies in the area gain a +2 status bonus to weapon and unarmed attack damage rolls, You all also gain temporary HP equal to your spell level.
Simple that. This turn it into a composition spell that didn't prevent you to cast but costs you the action that you can use to cast a composition spell.
To improve it over time add a lvl 10 and a lvl 18 feats.
Improved Rage Song, prerequisites Rage Song, you increase you Rage Song's status bonus to damage to +6 and your and your allies temporary HP is now equal to double of your spell level.
Insanely Rage Song, prerequisites Rage Song, you increase you Rage Song's status bonus to damage to +12 and you and your allies also gain resistance to physical damage equals to your spell level.
I think there's a lot of design space around skalds that might be tough to build into bards. I thought about skald a bit in the past but you could pretty easily push raging song as their primary class feature, and have the archetypes modify it, and possibly even their school of magic similar to barbarian instincts.
I agree. For building a skald from scratch as a new class, their role as a war chanter for a barbarian tribe is foremost in solid flavor. Instead of calling up an eidolon like a Sarkorian God Caller the skald could summon primordial songs that inspire their warriors.
I had to compromise on Skald Muse to keep its power level in PF2 bounds. That messed up the flavor, leading to the criticisms of Pronate11 and YuriP. I thought of a skald's bardic songs are part of their Raging Song, while I guess they thought of it as part of the bardic spellcasting. Instead of trying to argue for my vision, I need a vision that does not lead to such split opinions.
Back to the drawing board for building PF2 skald as its own class.
You could have a primal skald with the "Song of elements" that converts the damage bonus to an energy type, and gives energy DR.
You could have a draconic skald with the "Rage of Dragons" thats very similar to the above.
You could have an ancestors Skald with the "Rage of Ancestors" that does positive/negative damage
You could have an animal skald with the "Rage of beasts" that gives allies animal abilities in addition to bonus damage.
etc etc....
Wonderful flavor and opportunity there. However, it leaves open one big question: what do we call this kind of specialty? Barbarians call theirs "instincts." Bards call theirs "muses." Champions call theirs "causes." Druids call theirs "orders." Etc. I need a name that makes people think of a tribal mystic chanter. I will use "totems" in my rough draft. "Myth" or "inspiration" might work. Can anyone suggest a better name?
This will take at least a month. The results will show up in the Homebrew subforum.
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I’d love to have skalds as a class again, especially because imo, it seems to be another idea aside from the bard that really nails down the spirit of the occult tradition. I understand that skald is already cemented as a generic, non-ulfen concept in the setting, but I do think it could be appropriate and fun if it had a more generic name, though. War Poet or something. So, a little tidbit with information about how War Poets are called and viewed in different societies could be fun as well. Skalds for the ulfen, spirit-singers for the shoanti (taken from the pathfinder wiki), uhm… War Hymner in chelish societies? Okay, that’s an odd name.
As far as the mechanical side goes, I will be honest: I’m not sure. But I don’t think it has to take the Bard or Barbarian’s chassis, really. It could do its own thing, maybe thematically derived from both, but not mechanically so. Either way, I’m curious to what other people come up with!
What I just don’t know is in what sort of book this class could show up in! If it isn’t a class at all but a class archetype, or just an archetype, then it could show up in a LO: Saga Lands as the skald itself, but a LO: Saga Lands seems veeeery far away…
I would love to see the class return, even as just a bard archetype.
In the meantime, I have two houserules to accommodate: bards have martial weapon proficiency. The warrior muse instead grants "armored performance" to allow for medium armor.
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houserules to accommodate: bards have martial weapon proficiency.
Are you meaning that they would get proficiency with martial weapons along with the simple weapons that they have already? Or that they get increasing proficiency boosts at the same rate as other martial classes?
Because the first one sounds pretty lacking. Other archetypes like Archer and Mauler already do that - but only for a subset of martial weapons. Whichever ones happen to be relevant to the character. Edit: also Bard already gets proficiency in the best one-handed martial melee weapons - longsword, shortsword, and rapier; and the best martial ranged weapon - shortbow.
And the other seems a lot more powerful than is possible for any character. Full spellcasting and martial class weapon proficiency progression? Not even Magus gets that, and it would make Warpriest cry itself to sleep every night even more than it already does.
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Just gonna pop in here to say I am glad some other folks are interested in the Skald returning in some form in P2E, I never got to play first edition so I never got to play one, but I would love love love to see a second eidtion version.
I have created a janky as hell skald build that has not yet seen any testing, it misses out on actual spellcasting, but it has some of the flavor. Essentially build a Barbarian with the Folklorist and marshal archetypes (focusing on folklorist), the buffs you give out with folklorist can be used while raging so it will not get in the way.
really hope we get a real skald though. I think it would fit in very well as a bounded/wave caster. Have been putting some thought into what the mechanics might be but I do not have anything definitive, thinking about basing it off magus as the closest thing, but putting more emphasis on the "arcane cascade" type feature that would be their rage that they share, with the "spellstrike" equivalent being more of a simple action saver that does not allow attack roll spells. If my brain cooperates I might be able to develop something out of it.
I want a proper full class, but I could settle for class archetype,
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sorry for double post, I will post other ideas I had when i get the chance, life is sorta throwing everything at me all at once
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So I am gonna post most of the ideas I had, they are not coherent yet, but I want to share them and also prove that there is enough in this idea to more than justify a whole class
Firstly I think skald could potentially be a dual-subclass thing, like psychic. First subclass could be about their chosen kind of mythic thing or epic poem, like other users have said, the second would be fighting style, because this is a gish class and there needs to be something to support various fighting styles lest skalds all end up fighting the same way. They should have martial weapon proficiency progression like a magus of course, but like the magus, when you have a class that is meant to attack and cast, you need something to help even out the action economy (though the focus should be on Ragesong of course)
So fighting styles I feel should be supported
Weapon and shield – I feel like this is needed because it is cool and also action economy intensive, also the fighting style used by any historical skalds who were also fighters.
Dual wielding – skald Iconic dual wields and its cool,
Two-handed weapon – not as compelling as others in terms of skaldiness, but I think it should be supported
Unarmed – this could be a sort of dance based fighting style maybe? I know some cultures have dances associated with warriors, though tapping into that might be culturally insensitive, I am not sure.
Guns – mostly joking here but like, what if you went full Tchaikovsky here though? Full on gunshots as notes
Ranged/instrument and weapon (I have some ideas here that might be too much for a subclass)
So for this last one its weird but here me out I need to explain it. I was trying to think of a skaldic equivalent of the staff magus, and I think I have something here. You could choose an instrument and it could work like a staff for you, so you can give it extra spells or something, making this a more castery subclass. The instrument would be able to be wielded in one or two hands, like a magus staff but instead of melee it does a special ranged attack of musical magic. One action version would just be a strike, but maybe a two action version could be like a cone shaped thing with cantrip damage. And holding it in two hands would increase the damage. (strike damage would stay in line with normal ranged weapons). So like you could have a Skald with a sword in one hand and a warhorn in the other, which they use to blast people. Or like the other inspiration for this idea: Lang Wu Yao from Thunderbolt Fantasy. This subclass idea could potentially be a normal bard thing, but I feel turning your weapon into a weapon itself would fit the skald better,
Maybe there could be a feat for this subclass that lets you smack people in melee with your instrument.
In terms of the magic part, there are so many cool things we could have as subclass focuses, though i am conflicted over how specific they should be, as I feel the “poet of war” flavor should be a throughline,
Epic of Heroes – I have some ideas for this one that I will talk about after finishing the list, but it revolves around giving your party members epithets like a character in the illiad or many other epic poems
Epic of beasts – pretty straightforward, ragesong gives animal themed abilities
Epic of Dragons – others mentioned this one
Ok so Epic of Heroes: there is a 3rd party campaign for D&D 5e called Odyssey of the Dragonlords, it was themed around ancient Greece, and it had a bard subclass called the Epic Poetry Bard where you could give your party members epithets that gave them powers. I want to take that core idea and give it to the skald, as I feel its focus works well as a skald thing. You could have a list of epithets (keen-eyed, swift-footed, etc.) that you could assign to your party members, either at daily preparation or maybe longer, as I feel like they should be semi-permanent. While Ragesong is active, party members (possibly incuding you? I don’t thing the skald should miss out too much on the ability to fight well) gain the benefit of their epithet in addition to whatever the normal ragesong bonuses are, and since it is something that you need to prepare and cannot change on a whim, they can have a bit more oomph.
I think it would be cool if they had an “Oral History” feature that lets them use CHA instead of INT for certain knowledge skills, maybe society and lore skills? A special lore skill like Thaumaturge would probably make more sense. Maybe with a ribbon feature that makes the good and remembering spoken words or something. I feel this plays well into the class thematically. They need to be good at remembering stories but not have to invest into int since they are already MAD.
I think there could be a lot of cool ragesong ablities
Other random thoughts
definitely spontaneous caster, CHA obviously
I am perplexed over the power distribution of ragesong, I feel like it should give the Skald itself a good enough buff to be a decent martial, not as big damage as magus or fighter, but enough where they do in fact feel like a fighter and not just a bard with weapon proficiencies. Not a frontrunner, but able to hold their own on the front line if they end up in a situation where they are the main martial on the field
I also do really like it as a bard/barbarian class and I hope the barbarian part would not be gutted the thing that drew me towards wanting it was the cool idea having a magical support barbarian
I also have concerns over all the bonuses that would get thrown around and making sure they don’t end up in a situation where the Skalds abilities don’t do anything because everyone already has status bonuses to everything
What do people think about primary stat? just STR? STR/DEX? STR/CHA?
I know these ideas are all over the place but here they are.
also sorry for essay post lmao, very excited about this topic
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So I am gonna post most of the ideas I had, they are not coherent yet, but I want to share them and also prove that there is enough in this idea to more than justify a whole class
Firstly I think skald could potentially be a dual-subclass thing, like psychic. First subclass could be about their chosen kind of mythic thing or epic poem, like other users have said, the second would be fighting style, because this is a gish class and there needs to be something to support various fighting styles lest skalds all end up fighting the same way. They should have martial weapon proficiency progression like a magus of course, but like the magus, when you have a class that is meant to attack and cast, you need something to help even out the action economy (though the focus should be on Ragesong of course)
I have had similar thoughts in my skald design. In my case, I am trying to design the PF2 skald to recreate Kirii, the strix skald from my Iron Gods Among Scientists campaign. Kirii's signature style was that she donated several rage powers with her raging song, in addition to Greater Skald's Vigor. For combat, she charged from the air with Death from Above and a lucerne hammer. So the skald, or at least one subclass of skald, needs proficiency with martial polearms.
So fighting styles I feel should be supported
Weapon and shield – I feel like this is needed because it is cool and also action economy intensive, also the fighting style used by any historical skalds who were also fighters.Dual wielding – skald Iconic dual wields and its cool,
Two-handed weapon – not as compelling as others in terms of skaldiness, but I think it should be supported
Unarmed – this could be a sort of dance based fighting style maybe? I know some cultures have dances associated with warriors, though tapping into that might be culturally insensitive, I am not sure.
Guns – mostly joking here but like, what if you went full Tchaikovsky here though? Full on gunshots as notes
Ranged/instrument and weapon ...
But this list seems too finely sliced. I was thinking of a rage-based subclass with martial weapon proficiency, and another subclass based on the Spell Warrior archetype that lacks martial weapon proficiency but can enhance simple weapons to deal plenty of damage.
What do people think about primary stat? just STR? STR/DEX? STR/CHA?
Typically, a spontaneous caster, such as Bard, has Charisma as their key ability score. But Skald will be a wave caster like Magus and Summoner. Magus has Strength or Dexterity as key ability, favoring its martial side. Summoner has Charisma as key ability, because their eidolon can handle the martial side.
The Skald will fight with Strength like a barbarian. Thus, we can skip Dexterity as a key ability. Strength or Charisma would let the skald have themes that favor the martial side, and themes that favor the spellcasting side. Or we could set up subclasses with different key abilities like the Rogue's Rackets, in which case Strength alone would be the default.
I think it would be cool if they had an “Oral History” feature that lets them use CHA instead of INT for certain knowledge skills, maybe society and lore skills? A special lore skill like Thaumaturge would probably make more sense. Maybe with a ribbon feature that makes the good and remembering spoken words or something. I feel this plays well into the class thematically. They need to be good at remembering stories but not have to invest into int since they are already MAD.
This morning I had a silly idea for the Recall Knowledge check of a lore skald.
My current thoughts on the skald is that each skald will chose a theme. The theme consists of four parts: Magic Tradition, Inspiration, Advanced Inspiration, and Special Feature.
Magic Tradition is because I could not decide on the best spellcasting tradition for the skald. In PF1 the skald has their own spell list. The PF2 bard went for occult tradition, which I like to describe as "knowledge man was not meant to know." Instead of studying magic like arcane casters, occult casters try to avoid dwelling on details that their mind cannot comprehend. But skalds are more grounded and more primal than bards, so maybe primal tradition would be the best? My only restriction is that the skald Kirii liked Haste (Arcane, Occult, Primal) and Timely Inspiration (not yet in PF2). Rather than deciding, I want to test the traditions by giving different traditions to different themes, like the subclasses for Summoner, Sorcerer, and Witch.
Inspiration is their special rage power carried by their Raging Song. Advanced Inspiration is a more powerful version for higher levels.
Special Feature is an additional ability from the theme that is not tied to the Raging Song, such as martial weapon proficiency for the more martial skald subclasses.
I imagine every skald as working to unite a band of people. The lore subclass for skald I imagines as a teacher and the band is their students. Thus, for a lore-oriented Special Feature, I made up:
Ask the Class (auditory, linquistic) [One Action]
Select an ally and make a Charisma check against the Recall Knowledge DC of an valid Recall Knowledge subject. The ally cannot have already failed a check on the subject.
Critical success You and the ally make Recall Knowledge checks on the subject with a +2 circumstance bonus. If the ally fails the check, they can still make another Recall Knowledge check on their own.
Success Same as critical success, except you do not make a check.
Failure You make a Recall Knowledge check on the subject unless you have already failed a Recall Knowledge check on the subject.
This gives the lore skald a Charisma-based increased chance at Recall Knowledge without having to substitute CHA for INT on the actual Recall Knowledge check. And I find it amusingly silly, because I used to be a university professor.
HAKON: Ezren, what do you think is that creature in front of us?
EZREN: Given the six legs and gargantuan size, I believe it is a First World creature call a primal bandersnatch. Such creatures are an arcane curiosity because their gaze can focus the madness of the First World. Fortunately, the gaze is only at close range, 30 feet.
HAKON: I agree. I myself am reluctant to charge it due to its whiplike tail. That looks capable of an Attack of Opportunity within 15 feet. But we have no way to keep it from charging us. I'm drawing my sword and raising my shield before starting my Raging Song.
EZREN: I will back away.
Hmm, I'm not sure about an entire subclass dedicated to lore is the right move, I feel like that is cutting out something from the class identity to make a subclass out of. Subclasses are weird, we dont want to cut too much out of the core class but we also dont want to end up like poor cleric
I would think Skald could have a class feature that maybe gives them the ability to let them use CHA for society or something, I am not sure exactly how to get it to work yet, but I think all Skalds should have it, since they are not just performers, the songs they know and learn are generally going to be old folktales and epic poetry, that is their specific niche in terms of performance topic, so they should know stuff, but it would come from the stories they know. They do not know that a red dragon has fire breath because they read a bestiary, they know because there is a red dragon in the old songs,
(maybe something like dubious knowledge? Where some things would be accurate and some things would not?)
Its hard to find something that would not step on the toes of say, Thaumaturge, but I do strongly think Skald should have a lore thing as part of their features (or maybe a feat chain)
I personally think they should not be pick a list, I think as they are bardic, they should be occult casters (occult is supposed to be about the power of story or narrative or something, it is definitely the most nebulous list), though I think if it was pick a list it should be limited to occult or primal, as I feel primal fits. I could see them having their equivalent of studious spells maybe being from other lists based on subclass but that might not be something that should be done in this system
I super agree on STR/CHA
also the little scripted example was cool, I need to use that
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I personally think they should not be pick a list, I think as they are bardic, they should be occult casters (occult is supposed to be about the power of story or narrative or something, it is definitely the most nebulous list), though I think if it was pick a list it should be limited to occult or primal, as I feel primal fits. I could see them having their equivalent of studious spells maybe being from other lists based on subclass but that might not be something that should be done in this system
My main reason for not going solely to occult tradition for PF2 skald is that it does not match flavor of the spellcasting that the PF1 skald Kirii preferred. But let me analyze the traditions because I like to analyze things.
The description of Occult Tradtion in the Core Rulebook says, "The practitioners of occult traditions seek to understand the unexplainable, categorize the bizarre, and otherwise access the ephemeral in a systematic way. Bards are the most iconic occult spellcasters, collecting strange esoterica and using their performances to influence the mind or elevate the soul, and occult sorcerers strive to understand the mysterious power in their blood."
If we viewed skald purely as a hybrid of barbarian and bard, then it would inherit the occult tradition from bard. However, I think that PF2 skald has to stand on its own as an independent class. And as its own class, a skald does not want to "categorize the bizarre." Skalds are more rustic.
Primal magic is the rustic magic. The description of Primal Tradtion in the Core Rulebook says, "An instinctual connection to and faith in the world, the cycle of day and night, the turning of the seasons, and the natural selection of predator and prey drive the primal tradition. Druids are the most iconic primal spellcasters, calling upon the magic of nature through deep faith and a connection to the plants and animals around them, and primal sorcerers call upon their fey or beast blood to harness the same natural energies."
These descriptions are in the Core Rulebook, where bard is the only occult primary spellcaster, cleric is the only divine primary spellcaster, druid is the only primal occult spellcaster, wizard is the only arcane primary spellcaster, and sorcerer is the only spellcaster with a choice of traditions, so of course the Core Rulebook writers see them as the iconic classes for the traditions. In later books, we have:
Magus - arcane wave caster
Oracle - divine primary caster
Psychic - occult primary caster
Summoner - wave caster with choice of four traditions
Witch - primary caster with choice of four traditions
Psychic class is as occult as bard class. How much is the skald like a psychic? On the other hand, druid is still the iconic primal caster, so for considering primal casting how much is the skald like a druid? And I should consider the differences between wizard and magus and between cleric and oracle for how much two spellcasters of the same tradition should resemble each other.
A further division of the four traditions is the four essences on page 300 of the Core Rulebook. Occult uses spirit and mind essences. Primal uses life and matter essences. Arcane uses matter and mind essences. Divine uses life and spirit essences. That gives occult and primal totally unrelated essences. To me, that rules out giving skalds a choice between occult or primal and not the other traditions. If the skald can access those two traditions, then it can access all four essences which compose all four traditions.
The rage that ought to be in Raging Song is emotional and prevents concentration. It is spirit without mind. That would be divine tradition with life and spirit, since no tradition has matter and spirit.
A practical way to select the tradition for the PF2 skald would find which tradition gives the PF2 skald the most similar spell list to the PF1 skald. Spell lists are enormous, so let me limit it to 3rd-level spells for a sample. Nope, that is still too many spells, so let's restrict the list to the Core Rulebook. The 3rd-level PF1 skald spells that are in the PF1 Core Rulebook are Blink, Charm Monster, Clairaudience/Clairvoyance, Confusion, Crushing Despair, Cure Serious Wounds, Daylight, Deep Slumber, Delay Poison, Detect Thoughts, Dispel Magic, Displacement, Fear, Gaseous Form, Lesser Geas, Glibness, Haste, Heroism, Illusory Script, Invisibility Sphere, Magic Aura, Major Image, Phantom Steed, Remove Curse, Scrying, Sculpt Sound, Secret Page, See Invisibility, Sepia Snake Sigil, Slow, Speak with Animals, Summon Monster 3, Tiny Hut, and Tongues.
Name changes made some matches troublesome, but I get the following PF2 matches:
Blink - arcane, occult
Charm - arcane, occult, primal
Clairaudience - arcane, occult
Confusion - arcane, occult
Crushing Despair - arcane, occult
Heal - divine, primal (Soothe - occult - could also substitute for Cure Wounds)
Dawnflower's Light - divine, occult (Radiant Field - arcane, divine, occult, primal - could also substitute for Daylight)
Sleep - arcane, occult
Neutralize Poison - divine, occult
Mind Reading - arcane, occult
Dispel Magic - arcane, divine, occult, primal
Nothing for Displacement
Fear - arcane, divine, occult, primal
Gaseous Form - arcane, occult, primal
Nothing for Lesser Geas
Glibness - occult
Haste - arcane, occult, primal
Heroism - divine, occult
Nothing for Illusionary Script
Invisibility Sphere - arcane, occult
Magic Aura - arcane, occult
Illusory Creature - arcane, occult
Phantom Steed - arcane, occult, primal
Remove Curse - divine, occult
Scrying - arcane, occult
Sculpt Sound - occult
Secret Page - arcane, occult
See Invisibility - arcane, divine, occult
Nothing for Sepia Snake Sigil
Slow - arcane, occult, primal
Speak with Animals - primal
Summon Animal/Construct/Fey/Lesser Servitor - arcane, divine, occult, primal depending on type
Cozy Cabin - arcane, occult
Tongues - arcane, divine, occult
The list is overwhelmingly occult. Arcane comes in a surprising close second. I think arcane scored well because PF1 bard is treated as an arcane caster, so it had a lot of arcane spells that the PF1 skald inherited.
The only two gaps in the sample of spells for an occult caster were Heal, for which an occult caster can use Soothe, and Speak with Animals, which does not feel important.
Thus, I will make my PF2 skald an occult caster, despite the slight dissonance in flavor for Kirii.