TheSageOfHours's page

I am so happy we are getting Jotunborn!!! I love giantfolk

I do think they look a little silly but like who cares my characters can look however I want them to, no one I know is a lore stickler to that extent

I have been using orc ancestry to represent characters with giant blood, I am excited to see the Jotunborn mechanics.

So I really like the themes of this class and the gameplay ideas, but it is definitely being pulled in many different directions, and quite a few of those directions are more of an idea and either do not have much support mechanically or the support is weak

Currently the runesmith is subclass-less like fighter and monk, and while it works for those classes I do not think it works as well for runesmith

From my own observations, runesmith wants at least 2 subclasses as a baseline. One that leans into the martial aspect and lets the class be more viable in melee, and one that leans more into the “caster”-y aspects.

This would be somewhat like warpriest and cloistered cleric, though that worries me because those two were notoriously limiting for cleric content, however off the top of my head it seems to be the most fitting

As of now runesmith has martial combat progression (which i am a huge fan of) but its ability to fight is diluted by handedness restrictions, HP, and poor saves due to being especially MAD

Other people have noted the problems with damage output from runes, so I will not get into that here, for me the only issue with the “caster” side of things is that more utility/buff runes would be cool

Another angle of theming for this class is in the name runeSMITH. There is alot of flavor here for a character that crafts magical items and uses runes to enchant them. I will admit I am very attached to this aspect of the class and it speaks to me the most, the idea of playing a character that makes magic weapons and armor for the party and can also apply short term runic enchantments to strengthen them etc.

There are some flavor feats and abilities for it but I feel like it needs a bit more. Something like what the thaumaturge can do for magic items (investing more and applying your DC instead of the items DC) would really complete the fantasy for me. Perhaps to not step on the toes of the thaumaturge it could only apply to items you have made or something

There is also the runesinger angle, from the feat that lets you use performance and speak the rune aloud. This is super cool, but is a whole different vibe, also performance is not an INT stat, i rewlly want it to be expanded though

Now my idea to solve this may be too indulgent but hear me out:

A two layer subclass system like psychic

For The first subclass you choose between two options:

-“engraver”gives you INT as KAS, crafting, has the various feats associated with the “smith” part of the class, rune tracing is free hand or crafting tools

-“singer” gives you CHA as KAS, performance, various feats that lean into the magic words part of the class, rune tracing is free hand or instrument

Then after there would be the second layer of subclasses:

-“runewarrior” includes engraving strike type stuff and martial feats. Perhaps just straight up the ability to trace with weapons, (note on this at the end). The smithing weapons feat would be in here and make those weapons count as tools for the purpose of handedness(and would also apply to appropriate weapons for the aforementioned singer subclass) . (Same note at the end). This subclass may also care more about etched runes than “normal”. This subclass would likely not have as much potential to use runes at range, manipulate them once they are out, and potentially have more limitations on tracing/invoking

-“runespeaker” this is the more “caster”-y subclass, it cares more about traced runes than “normal” and is better at applying them at range as well as manipulating them once they are out (moving them around and such)

NOTE AT THE END: a few other adjustments to make things make more sense

Currently there is no reason to occupy a hand with an artisans kit, I propose that using the appropriate tools gives some small benefit to incentivize that
Enough of one that it is useful, but not so strong that it is mandatory

Maybe a “singer” has a sword in one hand and a horn in the other, or You could have a character that applies runes with a paintbrush etc

This would allow the smithing weapons feat (which now has those weapons count as tools) to let the “runewarrior” to get the benefit of the tool while also using those weapons, so you could have for example the dwarf in the artwork with the two handed hammer, or maybe your character wields a hammer in one hand and a sword in the other for dual wielding style etc

Thanks for reading this mess of ideas lol, was looking to see what you all thought, its probably too much extra complexity but wanted to get my ideas out there. :)

To me the runesmith immediately hit me with two big concepts

The first is “magical craftsperson” like somone who makes and enchants magic items and is good enough that they can use the empowering runes on the fly to strengthen themselves and allies, the class has some flavor abilities and feats that give it this vibe and the name screams it

The second is the stuff OP talked about, lots of writing things

I would agree that It feels more like a subclass, but I think the focus of the subclass shouldn't be a magical tradition, but the two different mechanics that the Runes give you: Etched Vs. Traced. the Engraver subclass could focus more on engraving runes, and even have an extra Rune preparation each day that could ONLY be used to Etch.

Whereas the Skald could Trace at a range for a single action (maybe limited or something) Or able to Trace and Invoke with the same two action activity.

I really like your ideas here! You pretty much said what I have been thinking but have not been able to put to words.

I am glad you pointed that out

The class is odd with unarmed, it has these problems like you said but also because of hand economy issues it actually pushes people quite hard towards unarmed in a way

I really love the flavor of this class and love that there are some options and class features that really lean into the magical craftsperson idea.

I personally think adding equivalents of Intensify Investiture and Thaumaturge's Investiture (with CHA swapped for INT) would really help let players who want to really lean into that without pushing power too much and also without stepping on Thaum's toes too much or take up too much design space.

I always thought it was a little strange that the stat that is used for crafting magic items is also not very good at using them, I feel like Runesmith being an exception with investing is a nice place for that niche (alchemist for alchemical crafting, inventor for tech, runesmith for magical crafting)

what do you all think? :D

I was wondering this myself, really feels like it needs clarification or would make more sense if we had more runes to test

I wish we had more examples of runes, I feel like there are many potential playstyles for the runesmith but it is hard to figure out how much support they would end up having

But the real question is: what will be the capstone feat at level 20? Will it be the ability to raise a single uber undead, raise a horde that functions as a single unit, gain undead traits like resistance to disease, or perhaps self-revive in a necromancer style? There’s so much potential...

Edit: maybe raise a undead dragon

one is extra 10th level spell

one is a living graveyard thrall that has 400 hp and walks around generating thralls when you sustain

one is a perfect thrall with 200 hp that can be sustained to move and attack for 7d10 it also only loses 20hp when you expend it instead of dying so you can keep using it

runesmith seems super cool

though I will say that I am disappointed that there are only 2 weapon runes

they are on demiplane!

RUNESMITH HAS A NEW BETTER VERSION OF THE PLAYTEST STEAL SPELL THING THAT MAGUS HAD

fair

i suppose i am just anxious because I am really looking forward to it

on top of that it is a medium armor class but with it being MAD like this its gonna be pretty hard for a STR runesmith to get that extra point of dex to fill out a breastplate

i am interested to see the playtest so that I can evaluate it for myself

I am a little worried about runesmith being a martial with mental KAS though, its gonna be forced to be squishy as hell like those always are since you have to max your KAS and accuracy stat

sad squishy runesmith gonna start with 12 con every time...

I am just gonna say that I am incredibly happy that runesmith is int

really didnt want it to be WIS or CHA

I am hoping it gets int versions of the thaumaturge magic item feats, (for using your DC with items and investing more items) it seems silly to me that the stat that is best for making magic items is not much good to actually use them

Pretty sure the runesmith is an idea one of the devs mentioned awhile back in the forums, i would look to find who it was but i need to go to bed like right now.

But whoever it was, I remember!! I have been waiting for this idea to come to fruition since that forum post! So excited!!

Also i am so happy we are getting a full necromancer, my best friend loves necromancer and this seems to be exactly what he wants, so excited!!!

Magus being a full list, but small daily spell limit hybrid is important, or downright essential.

The co-scaling martial and spellcasting proficiency is not something that other classes can do. It is this chassis power that has to be compensated for in their kit. This takes the form of a very low spell per day limit, and the intentional "anti-synergy" of Magus features like Arc Casc being a stance, and Spellstrike always being 2A.

The important thing is that while this low spell count creates common player responses/behaviors (spellstriking w/ cantrips and focus spells), the Magus does not mandates this, and that flexibility to differ from a player norm is genuine.

Due to how full list casters can add additional spellcasts that are mechanically identical to spells cast from slots via wands, rings, grimoires etc, this leaves the Magus with a rather unbound amount of (generally lagging) pseudo-slots to cast from.

This is the sort of paradigm that other similar classes like Kin and Summ dodged in their design. Neither can Strike like a martial, which is why it feels like the spellcasting side of Magus is so restricted. Because it is.

That unique compatibility with a Fighter, Mauler, Magic Warrior, etc, Archetypes is not something that should be ignored.

IMO, because the Magus *can* scrape around the system for more pseudo-slots via gp, while existing in a system where the reverse is not really possible, it means that the Magus is rather uniquely positioned to make full use of pf2's design.

While many players may be satisfied with only one or two small gp boosts to their slots, this is exactly my point. Because they have the chassis prof w/ spells, every Magus player can "feel the need" to have more slots, while having the ability to spend effort & gp to help that pain point.

Same goes for the action "clunk" / restrictions around spellstrike. Intentionally hard to work with, but despite common responses (Star Span, Haste), the system leaves the conundrum an open question. It leaves...

love this post!

So the issue with Magus is that Spellstrike is too good to not spam, and that it wants to be a Psychic?

Clearly, the solution is to remove Spellstrike and give Magus the same amount of spell slots as Psychic.

I'm only half joking.

Being serious, the way I've seen Magus being talked and how it seems to be "Spellstrike: the class" instead of the Gish class makes me think Magus plays more like, and forgive me for this sin, a 5e Paladin instead of the Bladesinger, Eldritch Knight Hexblade or "Fighter×Wizard" it seems to be advertised as.

Now, there's nothing wrong with a playstyle centered around big hits being viable, what's wrong is that there doesn't seem to be an option to mostly ignore Spellstrike.

I'll admit, I'm not an expert at the game (I've played like 5 sessions of the game, none which were as a spellcaster or Magus).

EDIT: maybe you could make Spellstrike into a Focus Spell?

Bladesinger is still 75% caster and is attached to an incredibly strong, kinda busted class so its cool but also not really a proper 50/50 gish

As someone who has played an EK to 20, calling it a gish is a joke. RAW its spell school limitations force you to barely have any useful spells and even if you remove those it is just a s~+*ty paladin until you get a third attack at level 11. I love my EK but a big part of that is my DM being really nice. RAW, they are kinda terrible, expecially at low level play where 5e mostly lives.

hexblade is cool

While paladin is part cleric and not part wizard, it is actually the best gish in 5e

TheSageOfHours wrote:

Earlier I briefly popped in to say that I think its fine that the magus often needs to use spells to perform at peak efficiency in combat. I stand by this once again. I do not think it is strange or bad. It confuses me how much the idea is resisted.

I can't speak for anyone else, but to me this sits in rather significant tension with this other part of your same post:

TheSageOfHours wrote:

While my current game has been on an unfortunate hiatus, my magus actually provided the party with plenty of utility casting thanks to doing what he could to learn a wide range of spells and acquire scrolls

As well as this:

TheSageOfHours wrote:

People on reddit and forums are very quick to pretend that spellcasting is a singular monolithic class feature and not a collection of a wide variety of different abilities. Will all of them be useful to you? no. but more of them will than people realize.

The Magus has four spell slots in total. According to you, not spending those spell slots in combat will come at a significant cost to the class's effectiveness, which sounds to me like the class's breadth of choice is falsified by the necessity of putting those options to use towards the same goal. A Fighter, by contrast, does not need to spend resources to be effective in combat, and a Wizard doesn't have to make the choice between being good in combat or in exploration when they have enough spell slots for both. This, to me at least, sounds more restricted than being able to use those limited spell slots for the breadth of utility offered by the arcane list, without having to eat into my combat effectiveness.

I also can't help but feel there's a lot of admissions of limitations being couched in a degree of copium here, specifically:

TheSageOfHours wrote:

Is the lack of attack spells in the remaster a problem? yes.

TheSageOfHours wrote:

Earlier I briefly popped in to say that I think its fine that the magus often needs to use

...

Yeah the magus has wizard style prepared casting so if they feel like they will be doing less combat they can prepare spells that will be useful in that situation. Yeah a wizard might not have to choose between the two because they are a full caster but again, that is the point is it not? Every class has limitations, the magus not being just as good at casting as a full caster makes sense? It is a gish, not a full caster. I do not really know what your point is to be honest.

Also spellstrike is an important core feature of the class for a good reason, it is a great way of fusing magic and martial ability (what the class is about) and gives you a good way to use offensive spells that otherwise would not be as useful to you because you are a gish.

also leave that "copium" garbage in 4chan where it belongs.

ah curses, I mistyped in the early part it should say "more complicated" not "less complicated

I am just gonna jump in here again to offer my 2 cents, as it were.

I very much oppose the ideas being tossed around that the magus should lose its 9th level casting or that spellstrike should be restricted to just cantrips etc.

Both of these things would really hurt the class fantasy in a huge way. A Magus is a martial AND a caster, and taking these things away just hurts that fantasy and ironically would make the magus into an ACTUAL one trick pony. One thing I really do not like is when i see someting that is advertised as a hybrid spellcaster/martial or similar type thing is when you start using it only to find that the class/character is not actually a hybrid like that, they are just a martial with very specific, prescribed abilities. Now these can be cool, but they ARE NOT the class fantasy I am looking for, and the Magus is that more than anything else I have played.

Limiting spellstrike to cantrips would just remove options, and adding weird extra rules to get slots and focus spells available again is just a pointless exercise to make the class less complicated but also weaker and less versatile. I like how freeform it is with how you can even use focus spells, it feels like an ability your character has that they can apply how they wish instead of being a thing the devs begrudgingly let you do.

Is the lack of attack spells in the remaster a problem? yes. However "throw a few attack spells into future book" is a far more elegant solution than "completely rework entire class"

on the topic of limiting casting level, no thank you! I think it is super cool that magus gets up to 9th level spells. Yes your saves will never be as good as a full caster, but even if you never use ANY spells that require a save or check, there are so many other sorts of spells you can use. While my current game has been on an unfortunate hiatus, my magus actually provided the party with plenty of utility casting thanks to doing what he could to learn a wide range of spells and acquire scrolls
need a key for a heist? scouting eye and creation let me make a perfect copy.
yeah that is some intense spell ranks, but thats what being a wizard-type caster is for, you can grab utility spells, and being able to do that freely is so much fun. Yeah our meteor probably wont hit the big bad, but you could still wipe out a small army with it, so i say its still useful. Being able to actually be a caster is so much fun.

Like, I have a 5e eldritch knight I have played all the way to 20, the FIRST thing my DM did upon seeing me play it was remove the spell school restrictions because they were pointless railroading.

------

Earlier I briefly popped in to say that I think its fine that the magus often needs to use spells to perform at peak efficiency in combat. I stand by this once again. I do not think it is strange or bad. It confuses me how much the idea is resisted. Saying that the Magus should not have to cast spells to perform well in combat is like saying it shouldn't have to hit things to deliver a spellstrike.

People on reddit and forums are very quick to pretend that spellcasting is a singular monolithic class feature and not a collection of a wide variety of different abilities. Will all of them be useful to you? no. but more of them will than people realize. Yes, haste is incredibly good on a magus. almost like it is a combat buff spell and the magus cares about using magic to enhance its martial ability or something. Finding ways around the limitations using spells is part of the fun for me. That doesn't mean I think the class is flawless, but too many write it off as janky when they are maybe just not looking at it holistically

Is another casting archetype hugely important for a magus to get? yes, but archetypes are part of the core systems of the game, so instead of the class being made weaker to accomodate more slots I can just throw out a few feats I do not care as much about (and if its free archetype I don't have to, or could even take TWO casting archetypes, which I have wanted to try)

In that currently hiatused campaign, I play a STR laughing shadow magus. He has been far away the MVP of almost every combat encounter except for the druid, who is always an essential figure for her own wide array of abilities). we have a fighter, but he just kinda hits things and gets a decent amount of crits, but those crits tend to be pretty weak. LS Magus though? zipping around the battlefield, spellstriking, becoming invisible, doing all kinds of s$++. One of the last combat encounters we had before hiatus was a big arena fight and due to some bad offensive rolls from the other characters I basically did all of the damage myself

I have also used its mobility and mobility spells to catch up to escaping villains for example

The magus can really sing once you get into the right mindset, at least that has been my experience

thank you for reading this awful ramble

Ah, so the Magus's action economy is "fairly fluid", but only if you're permanently quickened via haste. You know which class has a "fairly fluid" action economy with four actions per turn? Literally every class. That is the point of haste, and the Magus should not have to expend their extremely limited slots just to have a decent action economy.

While I see what you are saying here, and I do agree that the magus could use a couple tweaks, I don't really see the reliance on haste as a big deal, at least for me. Its actually part of the fun. The magus is supposed to be a split of martial and magic ability, and those halves are to compliment each other. Yeah the skeleton of the class is not well equipped to be a full martial, but its not supposed to. The entire theme of the class is about enhancing martial abilities with magic. Haste smooths out your action economy a great deal, invisibility can get you around reactive strike, there are spells that add damage to your weapon (call the lightning being a favorite of mine, your save is weak, but dealing damage and buffing yourself at once helps counteract having to take off time to buff), there are also movement spells like time jump.

I will say that taking a casting archetype does feel kind of essential, but I want to take those anyway so I do not really mind.

Also I may have said this long ago but I love your username, one of my all time favorite villains

I just noticed that it says the bloodrager only gives the rage trait to spells from the bloodrager archetype itself, which is rather disappointing, I was hoping to supplement their spell slots with other casting archetypes.

If we are talking about potentiially renaming monk in a way that preserves the many different things it does, what about Cultivator? It covers the wide array of abilities monk has rather well and always had cultivation fantasy elements.

I do hope exemplars get medium armor

I am SO EXCITED for the bloodrager, i was hoping for something with a more flexible theme, but this blood theme is so g#@&&~n cool that i do not mind

I need to know what sort of casting it has so badly, it sorta seems like it is like eldritch trickster where you get a caster multiclass archetype, which is sorta disappointing because it means less spells and progression is behind, but on the other hand that would allow not just picking a tradition but also picking a casting stat, which would allow for alot of flexibility in terms of what sorts of characters can be built which would be cool

All the witchwarper art depicts them with weapons, and the Iconic (I think that is the iconic) has a big sword. However the class seems to have about as much melee ability as the wizard. I was just wondering because I am a gish addict haha

TheSageOfHours wrote:

So I am reading through my copy and the werecreature archety[e says you can't use weapons and stuf while transformed but the art for the archetype and the art for the npc werecreatures all wield weapons, am I missing something?

You gain both an animal shape and a hybrid shape. You cannot use your weapons or items in the animal shape, but can use them in the hybrid shape. All of the art are of the Werecreatures in their hybrid shapes. Does that help?

Thank you very much!

So I am reading through my copy and the werecreature archety[e says you can't use weapons and stuf while transformed but the art for the archetype and the art for the npc werecreatures all wield weapons, am I missing something?

would love to incorporate a warhorn

Another thing-

What if I don't want to taunt? Like what if my character concept is stoic and chivalrous and doesn't really want to disrespect their enemies but is in every other way a guardian?

Like why is "you can annoy your enemies" a core thematic element of this class?

You could frame it as an Honorable Challenge right?

I really love the class so far, my main problem is I do feel like there needs to be more ways to support casters, ready aim fire is good but seems to largely be it. I do not wsnt my caster party members to feel left out of the fun game

Both of these look so awesome on a brief lookthrough, cannot wait until I am done with work so I can go through them more in depth!

It works differently than other full classes, so I wonder how the archetype will work. The animist is really cool, and incorporating it as an archetype could make some really interesting characters. Anyone have any ideas?

I do hope that there are options for how a dragonblooded looks, considering it is a versatile heritage it would be kinda boring if it just totally overrides the original ancestry. Maybe a lineage feat that can do that, like it makes you look really dragon-y like the picture and you get claws and a bite or something.

Obviously aesthetics are easy to handwave but still

Very excited regardless, one of my friends loves dragonborn so this is an important step in bringing him over to PF haha

Maybe commander could have different subclasses with different KAS?

like the CHA one is more fightery, and the INT/WIS one would be more skill monkey or something

I remember now it was a post from Michael Sayre about the Rune Knight idea.

Arachnofiend you are probably right about this being pure martial considering the theme of the book, but I am placing this hail-mary bet just incase I am right haha

I also hope commander can be INT or CHA like you do.

Figured I would start a thread for guessing at what the new classes will do. I remember one of the devs mentioning in a thread awhile back wanting to make a defensive arcane gish, so I am betting that is what the guardian is, I will have to see if I can find that post.

I am so happy that epithets are becoming more important!

I will say that my excitement has been kinda gutted if thunderstrike is indeed new shocking grasp, Magus is my favorite class and that would just be a pointless kick in the teeth for no reason. Also I was excited for the thematic wizard schools but it seems like wizards are getting bizarrely nerfed unless there is something they are not showing.

Rfkannen wrote:

Deriven Firelion wrote:

How high is the rage damage for elemental barbarian?

instinct ability raises it from two to four. Specialization turns it from 4 to six.

So tops out at 12?

Lower than dragon and giant instinct. We'll see what else it does, but that is usually not great.

It does not do much sadly. It gives impulses the rage trait for you, but you are still stuck with having to get them from the archetype, so they will be pretty weak and only worth using for utility rather than damage which limits the useful options alot. It does not just give you the dedication for free like the caster rogue does either.

Only has 2 feats, one gives you an extra damage type and the other gives you a once per rage AOE damage effect. These are level 2 and 6 respectively.

I am going to make a few builds with it to see if there is some potential in the archetype feats for Barb but it is very disappointing. It feels unfinished.

It feels weird that my posts about this book have only been complaining about elemental barb, I love everything else in the book, this is just a strange standout disappointment compared to the hype of everything else

working with kineticist archetype is super nice and makes me happy but one of the cool things about barbs for me is the BIG STUFF feats, like giant can become big and dragon gets a supercharged dragon form. Elemental doesnt get anything like that. still very much gonna play it, but I wish it got some of its own flavor.

I forget about superstition because its... you know...

elemental barbarian instinct feels sorta unfinished

the actual chassis is fine and it gives any impulses you happen to have the rage trait. But it only has 2 feats, one of which is just extra damage types and the other is a once per rage AOE thing. feels like a page is missing

I find myself in the "medium armor does not have a niche and should have one" camp.

its like this, A fighter has access to all three armor types, and there are reasons for a fighter to choose heavy (STR builds) and reasons to choose light (DEX builds) but never a reason to have medium outside of a transitional period until you have the stats for one of the other ones. Some have said that is its niche and I find that argument baffling. Medium Armor is an entire class of armor that is presented as equal to the others. It is not the simple weapons to martial weapons, nor is it some form of training wheels. It should have something that makes it actually special and worth taking on its own merits.

Hmm, I'm not sure about an entire subclass dedicated to lore is the right move, I feel like that is cutting out something from the class identity to make a subclass out of. Subclasses are weird, we dont want to cut too much out of the core class but we also dont want to end up like poor cleric

I would think Skald could have a class feature that maybe gives them the ability to let them use CHA for society or something, I am not sure exactly how to get it to work yet, but I think all Skalds should have it, since they are not just performers, the songs they know and learn are generally going to be old folktales and epic poetry, that is their specific niche in terms of performance topic, so they should know stuff, but it would come from the stories they know. They do not know that a red dragon has fire breath because they read a bestiary, they know because there is a red dragon in the old songs,

(maybe something like dubious knowledge? Where some things would be accurate and some things would not?)

Its hard to find something that would not step on the toes of say, Thaumaturge, but I do strongly think Skald should have a lore thing as part of their features (or maybe a feat chain)

I personally think they should not be pick a list, I think as they are bardic, they should be occult casters (occult is supposed to be about the power of story or narrative or something, it is definitely the most nebulous list), though I think if it was pick a list it should be limited to occult or primal, as I feel primal fits. I could see them having their equivalent of studious spells maybe being from other lists based on subclass but that might not be something that should be done in this system

I super agree on STR/CHA

also the little scripted example was cool, I need to use that

So I am gonna post most of the ideas I had, they are not coherent yet, but I want to share them and also prove that there is enough in this idea to more than justify a whole class
Firstly I think skald could potentially be a dual-subclass thing, like psychic. First subclass could be about their chosen kind of mythic thing or epic poem, like other users have said, the second would be fighting style, because this is a gish class and there needs to be something to support various fighting styles lest skalds all end up fighting the same way. They should have martial weapon proficiency progression like a magus of course, but like the magus, when you have a class that is meant to attack and cast, you need something to help even out the action economy (though the focus should be on Ragesong of course)
So fighting styles I feel should be supported
Weapon and shield – I feel like this is needed because it is cool and also action economy intensive, also the fighting style used by any historical skalds who were also fighters.

Dual wielding – skald Iconic dual wields and its cool,

Two-handed weapon – not as compelling as others in terms of skaldiness, but I think it should be supported

Unarmed – this could be a sort of dance based fighting style maybe? I know some cultures have dances associated with warriors, though tapping into that might be culturally insensitive, I am not sure.

Guns – mostly joking here but like, what if you went full Tchaikovsky here though? Full on gunshots as notes

Ranged/instrument and weapon (I have some ideas here that might be too much for a subclass)
So for this last one its weird but here me out I need to explain it. I was trying to think of a skaldic equivalent of the staff magus, and I think I have something here. You could choose an instrument and it could work like a staff for you, so you can give it extra spells or something, making this a more castery subclass. The instrument would be able to be wielded in one or two hands, like a magus staff but instead of melee it does a special ranged attack of musical magic. One action version would just be a strike, but maybe a two action version could be like a cone shaped thing with cantrip damage. And holding it in two hands would increase the damage. (strike damage would stay in line with normal ranged weapons). So like you could have a Skald with a sword in one hand and a warhorn in the other, which they use to blast people. Or like the other inspiration for this idea: Lang Wu Yao from Thunderbolt Fantasy. This subclass idea could potentially be a normal bard thing, but I feel turning your weapon into a weapon itself would fit the skald better,
Maybe there could be a feat for this subclass that lets you smack people in melee with your instrument.

In terms of the magic part, there are so many cool things we could have as subclass focuses, though i am conflicted over how specific they should be, as I feel the “poet of war” flavor should be a throughline,
Epic of Heroes – I have some ideas for this one that I will talk about after finishing the list, but it revolves around giving your party members epithets like a character in the illiad or many other epic poems
Epic of beasts – pretty straightforward, ragesong gives animal themed abilities
Epic of Dragons – others mentioned this one

Ok so Epic of Heroes: there is a 3rd party campaign for D&D 5e called Odyssey of the Dragonlords, it was themed around ancient Greece, and it had a bard subclass called the Epic Poetry Bard where you could give your party members epithets that gave them powers. I want to take that core idea and give it to the skald, as I feel its focus works well as a skald thing. You could have a list of epithets (keen-eyed, swift-footed, etc.) that you could assign to your party members, either at daily preparation or maybe longer, as I feel like they should be semi-permanent. While Ragesong is active, party members (possibly incuding you? I don’t thing the skald should miss out too much on the ability to fight well) gain the benefit of their epithet in addition to whatever the normal ragesong bonuses are, and since it is something that you need to prepare and cannot change on a whim, they can have a bit more oomph.

I think it would be cool if they had an “Oral History” feature that lets them use CHA instead of INT for certain knowledge skills, maybe society and lore skills? A special lore skill like Thaumaturge would probably make more sense. Maybe with a ribbon feature that makes the good and remembering spoken words or something. I feel this plays well into the class thematically. They need to be good at remembering stories but not have to invest into int since they are already MAD.
I think there could be a lot of cool ragesong ablities
Other random thoughts
definitely spontaneous caster, CHA obviously
I am perplexed over the power distribution of ragesong, I feel like it should give the Skald itself a good enough buff to be a decent martial, not as big damage as magus or fighter, but enough where they do in fact feel like a fighter and not just a bard with weapon proficiencies. Not a frontrunner, but able to hold their own on the front line if they end up in a situation where they are the main martial on the field
I also do really like it as a bard/barbarian class and I hope the barbarian part would not be gutted the thing that drew me towards wanting it was the cool idea having a magical support barbarian

I also have concerns over all the bonuses that would get thrown around and making sure they don’t end up in a situation where the Skalds abilities don’t do anything because everyone already has status bonuses to everything

What do people think about primary stat? just STR? STR/DEX? STR/CHA?

I know these ideas are all over the place but here they are.

also sorry for essay post lmao, very excited about this topic

sorry for double post, I will post other ideas I had when i get the chance, life is sorta throwing everything at me all at once

Just gonna pop in here to say I am glad some other folks are interested in the Skald returning in some form in P2E, I never got to play first edition so I never got to play one, but I would love love love to see a second eidtion version.

I have created a janky as hell skald build that has not yet seen any testing, it misses out on actual spellcasting, but it has some of the flavor. Essentially build a Barbarian with the Folklorist and marshal archetypes (focusing on folklorist), the buffs you give out with folklorist can be used while raging so it will not get in the way.

really hope we get a real skald though. I think it would fit in very well as a bounded/wave caster. Have been putting some thought into what the mechanics might be but I do not have anything definitive, thinking about basing it off magus as the closest thing, but putting more emphasis on the "arcane cascade" type feature that would be their rage that they share, with the "spellstrike" equivalent being more of a simple action saver that does not allow attack roll spells. If my brain cooperates I might be able to develop something out of it.
I want a proper full class, but I could settle for class archetype,

I already want to play a samsaran, they seem so awesome

"a new magus hybrid study that lets you leap weightlessly through the air with your cultivated magic, before your sword strikes home."

AAHVOUAVHVOUDBAVIHDBVOUNEVLINEIBILA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHH

TECHNOLOGY OPTIONS for the Metal Kineticist. There doesn't need to be a lot of them but I'd like to see at least 1 or two things grounded in Golarion-based tech (Firearms, Gears, Mechanics, etc) and another few for more exotic Metal from the stars and interesting ways to interface with said Sky/Star-Metal.

Bah, who am I kidding, I hope they somehow find an extra 20 pages to cram in a whole section on Numeria in general into it.

I really want a kineticist with metal and fire to be able to attack by like, spontaneously generating and firing a little cannon. I think that would be cool.

And metal users should totally have feats to use different types of metal.