Hi everyone -- I wanted to see what peoples' thoughts were about afflictions and issues of time. It seems like there are two different camps, and I'm unsure what the "correct" answer is.
For example, an assassin stabs a player with a dagger that's coated with a poison that has the following stats:
Saving Throw DC 18 Fortitude; Onset 1 round; Maximum Duration 3 rounds; Stage 1 1d8 poison damage (1 round); Stage 2 1d10 poison damage (1 round); Stage 3 2d6 poison damage (1 round)
SCENARIO 1
* Assassin's Turn. Stabs PC. PC suffers weapon damage and must roll a Fort Save. PC fails the save.
* PC's Turn. Nothing related to the poison happens because the 1-round onset period has not passed.
* Assassin's Turn. The 1-round onset period is over. PC suffers Stage 1. There is a 1-round delay until the next save. Poison's duration is set to 3 rounds.
* PC's Turn. Nothing related to the poison happens because 1 round hasn't passed since the last save.
* Assassin's Turn. Poison's duration is set to 2 rounds. The 1-round delay following the previous save is over. PC rolls another Fort Save. Fails and moves to Stage 2. There is a 1-round delay until the next save.
* Repeat
SCENARIO 2
* Assassin's Turn. Stabs PC. PC suffers weapon damage and must roll a Fort Save. PC fails the save.
* PC's Turn. Nothing related to the poison happens because the 1-round onset period has not passed.
* Assassin's Turn. The 1-round onset period is over. PC suffers Stage 1. There is a 1-round delay until the next save. Poison's duration is set to 3 rounds.
* PC's Turn. At the end of their turn they must roll a Fort Save. They fail and move to Stage 2. Even though one full round did not pass since their previous save, they make their saving throw here at the end of their turn per page 469 of the Core Rules where it says, "You then attempt any saving throws for
ongoing afflictions" when discussing what happens at the end of each player's turn. There is a 1-round delay until the next saving throw.
* Assassin's Turn. Poison's duration is set to 2 rounds. Nothing else related to the poison happens here.
* PC's Turn. They must roll a save at the end of their turn.
* Repeat.
The main differences being that in Scenario 1, everything related to the poison takes place on the Assassin's turn because they're the one who created the effect. And in Scenario 2, the timing of the affliction is also tracked on the Assassin's turn (per the rules for effect durations), but the saves and results are applied at the end of the PC's turn (per the End of Turn rules). In either case, should the Assassin die before the Affliction expires or is removed, the duration of the affliction will continue to be tracked at the same point in initiative (as well as saves and results in Scenario 1).
Which Scenario is right? Or if neither of them are, what is the correct method?
Thanks!
Personally I think that one timing should be used and stuck with for any effect that has a timing of one round. Even if it is different timing for different effects.
In this case I would go with either all saves and entering of new stages should be done during the assassin's turn (I think that is scenario 1), or all saves and entering of new stages should be moved to the PCs turn (which I don't think quite matches scenario 2).
So in my proposed scenario 3 the assassin makes their attack and the PC makes the initial save against the poison, but the 1 round onset period doesn't start until the PCs turn. Then the PC gets 1 full round of onset period before making their next save and entering a new stage on their next turn.
I think I would prefer using scenario 1 - it just seems easier to handle and understand. I don't like scenario 2 because of the compressed time and not getting a full round for a 1 round effect - because of the complications introduced by shifting the timing from the assassin's turn to the PCs turn.
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Another place where a duration of 1 round doesn't work well is when an effect with a 1 round duration is cast as a reaction, such as Delay Consequence.
An effect with 1 round - by RAW - ticks down on the turn of the person that cast the spell and created the effect. So it can have a drastically different time difference if the reaction was used on a creature's turn well before the caster's turn, or if the reaction was used on a creature's turn and then the caster's turn comes up immediately afterwards.
The entire point of Delay Consequence seems to be that you can delay the damage of a hit that would drop a character until someone else in the party can heal enough of the damage such that the new damage that was delayed doesn't actually drop them any more. But that doesn't work if there is no time between when the spell was cast and when the caster's turn starts. So there is really no point in using the spell if you are the party's in-combat healer. And since this is a Cleric domain spell...
Looking through the rules for Afflictions and Duration specifically for this type of scenario.
The Duration rule is very clear that a duration counts down timed based on the initiative count of the creature that caused the effect.
Nothing in Afflictions actually says that saving throws against an affliction have to be done during the victim's turn.
The example given in Afflictions has the victim drinking a glass of arsenic water. But that is an event that happens on the victim's own turn, so by coincidence the timing of the affliction also matches the victim's initiative count - even though none of the durations of arsenic are measured in rounds.
If the example was instead Mindfog Mist that you were exposed to when you opened a letter, it would have the same coincidental alignment of the affliction's timing and the victim's initiative count.
But in the example of the assassin striking with a poisoned dagger, the affliction would run its timing on the initiative count of the creature that caused the effect - the assassin. The victim would roll their saves and take the effects of the various stages during the assassin's initiative count.
Well, then the rules are in conflict with each other.
Duration clearly says that if the stage or onset time lasts one round, then you get a full round between stages. It counts down during the initiative count of the creature causing the affliction.
But End of Turn rules say that you make Affliction saves during that end of turn step.
And the Affliction rules don't specify one or the other as being correct.
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I see Maximum Duration as "this is how many rounds/minutes/days the PC must save against the thing". Onset is just how long it takes to start making saves.
When you hit a PC with a poison with no onset, it does its effects immediately and at the end of the target's turns. Onsets just move the initial effects down the line.