How do I calculate wich natural weapons are primary and wich are secondary?

[Drago_1404]

Right now I Am playing in a gestalt campaign, and I am able to wildshape, and I can get three different natural weapons, tow claws one bite and one gore.If I wild shape for example into a giant porcupint and grow the other three weapons, how do I know wich are primary and wich are secondary?

[Rysky]

Link for Natural Attack classification

[Chell Raighn]

Unless noted otherwise in the creature entry, Bite, Gore, Claws, Slam, Sting, & Talons are by default Primary Natural Weapons. Any other natural weapon is by default secondary unless noted otherwise OR is the ONLY natural attack the creature has and it lacks the ability to make unarmed strikes or attacks with manufactured weapons. If a creature attacks with a manufactured weapon or an unarmed strike then ALL natural weapons are considered secondary for that round, no exceptions.

[MrCharisma]

Chell Raighn wrote:

Unless noted otherwise in the creature entry, Bite, Gore, Claws, Slam, Sting, & Talons are by default Primary Natural Weapons. Any other natural weapon is by default secondary unless noted otherwise OR is the ONLY natural attack the creature has and it lacks the ability to make unarmed strikes or attacks with manufactured weapons. If a creature attacks with a manufactured weapon or an unarmed strike then ALL natural weapons are considered secondary for that round, no exceptions.

This isn't quite right.

If you're holding a sword, but as a standard action you use your bite attack instead then your bite attack is treated as a primary attack. It's only treated as a secondary weapon if you use it to attack during the same action (usually a full attack action) that you're using to attack with your manufactured weapons (or unarmed strikes). It's not about whether you have the capability, it's about whether you're currently using them.

If you were to make a full-attack with a sword-and-bite then the bite would be treated as a secondary natural attack. If the enemy then went to retreat and provoked an attack of opportunity you could bite them and treat this as a primary natural attack, since this is a new action.

[zza ni]

i don't see it mentioned so i'll add.

a creature with only one natural weapon that it can use(and stuff like claws\ talons that let it attack twice is considered more then one) no matter what kind of natural weapon it is, use it as a primary weapon and add 1.5 of it's str bonus to the damage it deal with it. (again unless specific rules apply to it, like some of them are said to always be considered secondary no matter what). In case of a natural weapon of one kind with more then one attack (like the talons, hooves etc) it uses the primary weapon rules (with normal full str to damage) and do not get the 1.5 str to damage.

so a creature with:

- 1 natural weapon with single attack form (bite, gore, slam etc). even if it's normally listed under secondary would use full bab and 1.5 str to damage.

- one type of natural weapon that has more then one attack (hooves, talons, claws, tentacles etc) , even if it is listed at the table under secondary attacks it uses the primary attack rules and full str for damage to each attack.

- more then one kind of natural weapons (x+y, can be claws, bite, hooves etc etc etc) uses the table to see which is primary and which is secondary. i am not sure, but i think that in case all are secondary it can pick one to be primary.

- ANY natural weapons and manufactured weapons and uses both kinds in the same turn (not including attacks of opportunity), all natural attacks, even primary ones, are using the secondary weapon rules (unless specific ability change it)

[MrCharisma]

Good summary.

[Azothath]

right

you can see a natural primary attack move to a secondary at work in the race description for Sahuagin.
Bite: Sahuagin have a natural bite attack that deals 1d4 points of damage. This bite is a primary attack, or a secondary attack if the creature is wielding manufactured weapons.

Dragons are an exception on adding Str damage and it is called out in their description.
Tail Slap: The dragon can slap one foe each round with its tail. A tail slap is a secondary attack that deals the indicated damage plus 1-1/2 times the dragon's Strength bonus (this is an exception to the normal secondary attack rules).