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With Treasure Vaults out now, I'd like to turn some attention to the upcoming Rage of Elements book coming out. This has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that it is my most anticipated book since SoM...ok...it does! I just want to talk about it and get people's thoughts and expectations.
I'll start:
I'm interested in other people's thoughts as well. This book has so much potential!
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I’m really, really hoping for some writeups of a few spots where the elemental planes make themselves known on the face of Golarion. What are some of those oases in northern Garund like? What were those wars that Qadira contributed troops to like?
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- I want there to be an all-day resourceless elemental blaster... because it is a void in the system, and it's one that people have been missing. If that means that the elemental barb has a way to attack at range with their element as a sort of built-in magic thrown weapon? Great. If that means that the Kineticist has a build that spends a bunch of their utility and flexibility tokens to have a solid, reliable attack to play with? Great. If you can do both? Even better.
- I want there to be a way to play a kineticist that effectively specializes in each of the wacky damage type - to be someone where acid or lightning or ice is the thing that they do all day every day, and they can have the majority of their powers flavored that way. If a new player comes up to my table and wants to play Elsa, I want to be able to tell them how to do that, and have the result be functional and satisfying.
- I want those elemental auras to be robust. I want to be able to play a character where everyone within 15 feet of me knows that they're within 15 feet of me and my allies think it's great and my enemies do not. I want a kineticist build that tempts me to take strength as my secondary so that I can play grapple games partially because that's a way to make my enemies stay within 15 feet of me when otherwise many of them might sincerely prefer to not.
But really? For me? All of that is gravy. I already know that the kineticist is going to make me happy. The things I really care about have already been confirmed. All I have to do is wait long enough to get it.
I'm personally hoping for some elemental or elemental themed ancestries. Mephits sound like a perfect option for that, they can be found all around Golarion so they'd be a good fit for this book, and they also just sound really fun to roleplay. Besides that salamanders, gargoyles, kovintuses, and azers also come to mind as possibilities.
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Kineticist is the thing I've been waiting for since 2e was announced. I really hope it manages to meet my favorite aspects of the class from first edition (mostly resourceless, not very dependant on items, strong at will aoe damage, etc) while also being able to have work arounds for some of the 2e monsters that are a turd to play against (creatures with strong aoos that interrupt, golems, non elementals with strong resistances or immunities, etc). I did really like a lot about the playtest version so I'm cautiously optimistic about what's coming.
A lot of the stuff that's been teased sounds great to me. More elemental spells, elemental barbarian is something I was hoping for, metal druid is something I didn't know I wanted, more elementals for summoning is very welcome, and more geniekin options is very cool (hope we get options for existing geniekin but just getting wood and metal versions is good too).
The more classes that gets subclasses to do with elements, the better imo. Somehow working wood and metal into elemental sorcerer would be cool. Elemental eidolon is a hole that needs filling. Oracles could do fun things with wood, metal and earth elements. Elementalist could definitely use a boost, as it is now I feel like its really not worth taking since it takes away so much.
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A water patron for witch could be nice for that sea hag theming, and I guess the other elements could work for it too, but I'm not sure if there's any other classes where there's good opportunities for elemental subclasses that haven't been mentioned here yet.
I have a few things, mostly though I am excited for what we KNOW we are going to get, like new geniekin ancestries, kineticist, barb and druid content etc
But here we go:
I really hope that metal elemental stuff isn't just some weird element like poison, I want metal to be metal, personally I hope its not necessarily rusty metal. Those things are cool, and I want them, but I want support for normal metal with physical damage types to be the base. (maybe poison/rust stuff could be combination of metal and water or metal and air?).
Enough support for ice and lightning to build kineticists to build solely around those, same for other (likely) hybrid elements, but those two especially.
I am hoping the elemental barbarian lets you focus on a single element (same thing about cold and lightning here, will be big sad if I cannot build lightning barbarian, its cliché, but its fun).
I hope the cool stuff from the playtest makes it through, in my head I am largely thinking of the fire as jet boost flight feat for fire kineticist, It was not super amazing or anything, I just like it. I am still mourning Magus' original capture spell and thaumaturge's magic circle feat.
Kinda weirded out for my own hopes since they read mostly as concerns, but its because I am so so excited for this book, I think kineticist is really going to be great for the game, both on its own and I think its archetype will work well to make elementally themed builds (I have a ifrit samurai who needs kineticist archetype so badly)
in terms of things that have not been discussed, this is too specific to be likely, but I think it would be cool if metal kineticists had a feat tree about forming a metal shell/armor/metal skin type deal, with higher level feats giving different materials, like it would be so cool to just suddenly turn into an adamantine person (think Greed from Fullmetal Alchemist)
As a small, pointless addendum to my previous post, I hope the Elemental barbarian has some persistent AOE damage abilities, I am so close to being able to liberate a favorite character from 5e and port him over.
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I’m definitely crossing my fingers for the ability to be a cold or lightning Kineticist from level 1. Not having that would be really disappointing.
Acid would be the cherry on top, both those two really feel essential.
I’m definitely crossing my fingers for the ability to be a cold or lightning Kineticist from level 1. Not having that would be really disappointing.
Acid would be the cherry on top, both those two really feel essential.
Acid would be super cool, I am thinking it might be the hybrid for metal and earth. I really hope the hybrid elements are available at level 1
Very exited to see what they all are!
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I’m definitely crossing my fingers for the ability to be a cold or lightning Kineticist from level 1. Not having that would be really disappointing.
Acid would be the cherry on top, both those two really feel essential.
Acid would be super cool, I am thinking it might be the hybrid for metal and earth. I really hope the hybrid elements are available at level 1
Very exited to see what they all are!
Acid excites me because of the prospect of reflavoring it on something like a Nagaji or Vishkanya. Imagine a Kineticist whose "element" is their own corrosive venom... it's so cool!
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Acid excites me because of the prospect of reflavoring it on something like a Nagaji or Vishkanya. Imagine a Kineticist whose "element" is their own corrosive venom... it's so cool!I’m definitely crossing my fingers for the ability to be a cold or lightning Kineticist from level 1. Not having that would be really disappointing.
Acid would be the cherry on top, both those two really feel essential.
Acid would be super cool, I am thinking it might be the hybrid for metal and earth. I really hope the hybrid elements are available at level 1
Very exited to see what they all are!
Oh thats a great idea! Gonna write that down for later.
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I'm starting to think about unexpected stuff. No one expected Druids or Rangers to be one of the focuses of Dark Archive, or Monks to get as much as they did in Secrets of Magic (especially considering it was stances and not spells).
So... planar thaumaturge things? Elemental fighter feats? Metal or Wood oracles? Elemental bard songs? A planar psychic?
I'm starting to think about unexpected stuff. No one expected Druids or Rangers to be one of the focuses of Dark Archive, or Monks to get as much as they did in Secrets of Magic (especially considering it was stances and not spells).
So... planar thaumaturge things? Elemental fighter feats? Metal or Wood oracles? Elemental bard songs? A planar psychic?
I think I'd expect to see some sort of generic elemental archetype you can take rather than elemental fighter feats honestly. The rest of that sounds cool though, new thaumaturge options in particular sound like a way they could lean into some weirder and more interesting interpretations of the elements.
Honestly, some elemental oracle stuff wouldn't be too out there. Just getting metal & wood but nothing else might be a bit strange (in part because I imagine there's also so much other stuff fighting for things themed around those planes), but getting at least some mystery wouldn't we weird. We've already got Flames for fire and Tempest for... well actually that's a mix of air and water, but whatever.
Even just a general "Elemental Mystery" which has you using elements of all the elements could be very interesting, though I doubt they'd do it. Most likely is probably just maybe one or two random elements. Honestly, in general I expect lots of options only tying in with maybe one element getting int there; simply as I imagine the different planes'll get their own chapters and they'll want to tie mechanical things into each part.
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Waaay back in the 4e Manual of the Planes, there was a Paragon Path for being the elevated mortal servant of a genie. They got some fun elemental and mobility magic, along with implied social privileges that came along with namedropping such a potent master.
I'd love something like that, to emphasize the social side of elemental adventuring.
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At this point what I want has not even been hinted at and would probably require it's own book.
Multiple class archetypes for every class
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I'm starting to think about unexpected stuff. No one expected Druids or Rangers to be one of the focuses of Dark Archive, or Monks to get as much as they did in Secrets of Magic (especially considering it was stances and not spells).
So... planar thaumaturge things? Elemental fighter feats? Metal or Wood oracles? Elemental bard songs? A planar psychic?
From the interview,
"Q: The book apparently includes some elemental options for existing classes too, can you tell us more about these?A: Yeah, so the main options for the existing classes are spells and magic items.(...)"
I'm not expecting anything beyond the two things mentioned- an elemental instinct for barbarians, and the late addition of the metal druid class archetype. That's about as much class-specific material as Dark Archives and Secrets of Magic got. I hope I'm wrong and we get a few more "expected" things at least.
Thanks for pointing that out, helps to temper expectations.
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I'm really excited to see what kind of Lineage feats the metal and wood geneiekin heritages look like. And if they wil have their own benefits or just have the lowlight vision/darkvision thing that most of the other geniekin have.
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Elemental spells, I want enough elemental spells to cover elements at every level and to do so in different ways.
Ice is really under represented atm and that feels bad imo.
Also some save based elemental cantrips that compete with the other multi target ones.
Something like the PF1 Genie Binder? Or more like Deivrat/Brazen Disciple.Waaay back in the 4e Manual of the Planes, there was a Paragon Path for being the elevated mortal servant of a genie. They got some fun elemental and mobility magic, along with implied social privileges that came along with namedropping such a potent master.
I'd love something like that, to emphasize the social side of elemental adventuring.
Daivrat are the closest of those! I actually hadn't seen that in PF1, that's perfect.
Something super specific I'd like to see are elemental prostheses. There was something like that in 1E and they were super neat. Fitting them into the assistive item framework, giving someone an arm of elemental water that can freeze and melt with a thought, prosthetic eyes of flame or storms for seeing through smoke or fog, legs made of elemental plant matter that let you root yourself in place, or grow real tall for a short time, or let you feed from rich soil, and so on.
The old 3.5 Magic of Eberron had Elemental Grafts like this, along with the interesting note that some Gnomes pursued them to feel closer to the elementals they often worked with in their magical artifice.
That book also had Grafts from magical plants and the undead; they were all really, really cool! I love the idea of sticking a piece of ‘monster’ to yourself permanently.
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There COULD be some cool stuff with Rangers. Rangers are often great at Survival. Planar Survival is a feat. Yes, literally anyone can take it, even a wizard if they choose to pump Survival, but I think Survival and Ranger go hand in hand. Also fiery arrows focus spell and stuff like that. Could be a few goodies for a Ranger. Maybe some kind of stance like characters in Warcraft 3 had, such as the Flaming Arrows from Priestess of the Moon or Cold Arrows from the Dark Ranger, could be stances - in the same way Monks got elemental stances.
Probably not but, you know like that one old Burger King commercial used to say, "Hey it could happen."
New elemental cantrips, at least some of them roughly as powerful as electric arc.
I wouldn't call it "powerful", when you cannot use it with Spellstrike without the right feat.
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That's an odd way to measure how strong a cantrip is
Electric Arc cannot be used with Spellstrike, because it doesn't require an attack roll. You can use it with the Expansive Spellstrike feat, but the target is still entitled to a saving throw, even if you succesfully strike it. What's MORE irritating is that there are TWO 1st-level Electric spells: Shocking Grasp and Horizon Thunder Sphere.
Nobody's gonna use leveled spells for Spellstrike given that Heightening them require high slots.
Here's one prediction/hope: a follow-up higher-level feat for Expansive Spellstrike, which NEGATES any saving throw the target would receive after being struck with a Spellstrike using other spells. If I use Electric Arc with [Greater] Expansive Spellstrike, the target doesn't the basic Reflex saving throw if Spellstrike succeeds. If I decides to use Electric Arc to target TWO opponents, only the 2nd one gets to save, because it won't be the initial Spellstrike target.
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Electric Arc cannot be used with Spellstrike, because it doesn't require an attack roll. You can use it with the Expansive Spellstrike feat, but the target is still entitled to a saving throw, even if you succesfully strike it. What's MORE irritating is that there are TWO 1st-level Electric spells: Shocking Grasp and Horizon Thunder Sphere.
Their point is more that magus is the only class that matters for and as such hardly a good yard stick :p
Don't get me wrong, magus deserve cool cantrips too... but electric arc being good as a cantrip doesn't require it to be good with spellstrike.
Have you actually played a magus or are you theory crafting? Yes people do use their slots for spellstriking it's one of the main reason some favor not raising INT to high. I know I personally prefer using cantrips for spellstriking because it let's you get 2 stats to damage since I only get 1 swing a round most times
I know I haven't seen slots used to Spellstrike since people figured out they could do so with cleric (and now psychic) focus powers. Who'd want to waste important resources like that?
I have seen magi take electric arc anyway though. That or the elf feat that gives you Electric typed acid splash.
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Have you actually played a magus or are you theory crafting? Yes people do use their slots for spellstriking it's one of the main reason some favor not raising INT to high. I know I personally prefer using cantrips for spellstriking because it let's you get 2 stats to damage since I only get 1 swing a round most timesI know I haven't seen slots used to Spellstrike since people figured out they could do so with cleric (and now psychic) focus powers. Who'd want to waste important resources like that?
I have seen magi take electric arc anyway though. That or the elf feat that gives you Electric typed acid splash.
Does this mean as a Magus you multiclass into Cleric at some point in order to gain access to their Domain Spells and then use their Domain Focus Spell to Spellstrike? Why not Druid? I heard Druids have amazeballs Focus Spells but Cleric Focus spells is kind of bad mostly across the board.
I don't know anything about Psychic. Didn't even know it was a class.
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Druids have good focus spells but for the Magus you specifically want spells that make attack rolls because that's how spellstrike functions. Cleric (usually for Fire Ray) or Psychic (for Imaginary Weapon usually or more occasionally Amped TKP/Ray of Frost/Produce Flame) are the main ways to get a focus spell that you can Spellstrike with.
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Electric Arc cannot be used with Spellstrike, because it doesn't require an attack roll. You can use it with the Expansive Spellstrike feat, but the target is still entitled to a saving throw, even if you succesfully strike it. What's MORE irritating is that there are TWO 1st-level Electric spells: Shocking Grasp and Horizon Thunder Sphere.
Nobody's gonna use leveled spells for Spellstrike given that Heightening them require high slots.
Here's one prediction/hope: a follow-up higher-level feat for Expansive Spellstrike, which NEGATES any saving throw the target would receive after being struck with a Spellstrike using other spells. If I use Electric Arc with [Greater] Expansive Spellstrike, the target doesn't the basic Reflex saving throw if Spellstrike succeeds. If I decides to use Electric Arc to target TWO opponents, only the 2nd one gets to save, because it won't be the initial Spellstrike target.
Maybe not negate the saving throw, but the result could be one degree worse with the Greater version.
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TECHNOLOGY OPTIONS for the Metal Kineticist. There doesn't need to be a lot of them but I'd like to see at least 1 or two things grounded in Golarion-based tech (Firearms, Gears, Mechanics, etc) and another few for more exotic Metal from the stars and interesting ways to interface with said Sky/Star-Metal.
Bah, who am I kidding, I hope they somehow find an extra 20 pages to cram in a whole section on Numeria in general into it.
Maybe not negate the saving throw, but the result could be one degree worse with the Greater version.Electric Arc cannot be used with Spellstrike, because it doesn't require an attack roll. You can use it with the Expansive Spellstrike feat, but the target is still entitled to a saving throw, even if you succesfully strike it. What's MORE irritating is that there are TWO 1st-level Electric spells: Shocking Grasp and Horizon Thunder Sphere.
Nobody's gonna use leveled spells for Spellstrike given that Heightening them require high slots.
Here's one prediction/hope: a follow-up higher-level feat for Expansive Spellstrike, which NEGATES any saving throw the target would receive after being struck with a Spellstrike using other spells. If I use Electric Arc with [Greater] Expansive Spellstrike, the target doesn't the basic Reflex saving throw if Spellstrike succeeds. If I decides to use Electric Arc to target TWO opponents, only the 2nd one gets to save, because it won't be the initial Spellstrike target.
Doesn't a critical success already do that for the base version? seems like an easy upgrade.