Neat trait. I don't see it being all that useful outside of turn one if you're in position to ready a strike though. How else could this be utilized? One thought would be a barbarian with some of the higher level taunts or just being a giant to draw enemies to you and let loose. A large sized nodachi is in monster hunter longsword territory so there's that.
My first thought went to a high-level fighter with Combat Reflexes or similar reactions. You benefit from the bonus on additional reaction Strikes, not just the Readied attack.
egindar wrote: My first thought went to a high-level fighter with Combat Reflexes or similar reactions. You benefit from the bonus on additional reaction Strikes, not just the Readied attack. From what I can tell, readied strikes against targets that enter your reach is all that works. That's the only thing that's mentioned in the trait. It would be really awesome if it applied to all opportunity attacks though.
A fighter with combat reflexes might be able to get off 2 attacks with a readied strike + opportunity attack if they don't step after entering your reach.
aobst128 wrote: A fighter with combat reflexes might be able to get off 2 attacks with a readied strike + opportunity attack if they don't step after entering your reach. Or you get 15' reach from enlarge or similar effects.
aobst128 wrote: egindar wrote: My first thought went to a high-level fighter with Combat Reflexes or similar reactions. You benefit from the bonus on additional reaction Strikes, not just the Readied attack. From what I can tell, readied strikes against targets that enter your reach is all that works. That's the only thing that's mentioned in the trait. It would be really awesome if it applied to all opportunity attacks though. You still have to Ready the Strike, so it IS two actions on your turn, but the trait says "until the start of your next turn, Strikes with the brace weapon deal an additional 2 precision damage for each weapon damage die it has," so you could make the Readied Strike, benefit from the trait, and then make an AoO later, and also benefit from the trait.
If you know you're going to get as many AoOs out as you have reactions, you could also cheese it a bit by doing Strike + Ready Strike, then opt not to use the Readied Strike at MAP and AoO instead. This works before Combat Reflexes, and probably works slightly better without it honestly.
It's pretty niche, unfortunately. But many of the new traits often are. Hampering anybody ?
They could have made brace a thing that just applies to your reaction attacks, that would be something to built around at least.
trait give all reaction strike 2 damage per damage dice would be too strong
maybe 1 damage per dice instead
egindar wrote: If you know you're going to get as many AoOs out as you have reactions, you could also cheese it a bit by doing Strike + Ready Strike, then opt not to use the Readied Strike at MAP and AoO instead. This works before Combat Reflexes, and probably works slightly better without it honestly. I'm quite certain that that is not intended. While it isn't stated anywhere afaik, I would be very surprised if you could forgo the Readied attack in favour of another reaction. It isn't super broken or anything - not with that heavy of a setup cost and the reliance on reaction triggers - but as you said yourself, it is pure cheese. And 2e really doesn't like that kind of cheese :)
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Ready wrote: If the trigger you designated occurs before the start of your next turn, you can use the chosen action as a reaction (provided you still meet the requirements to use it). Using the Readied action is optional, as far as I can tell. I think I prefer it to do so, generally, so I'd rather the brace trait's wording change rather than Ready's.
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egindar wrote: Ready wrote: If the trigger you designated occurs before the start of your next turn, you can use the chosen action as a reaction (provided you still meet the requirements to use it). Using the Readied action is optional, as far as I can tell. I think I prefer it to do so, generally, so I'd rather the brace trait's wording change rather than Ready's. Definitely! Brace is the only "problematic" instance of doing this I've ever seen, so that is the only thing that should change.
25speedforseaweedleshy wrote: trait give all reaction strike 2 damage per damage dice would be too strong
maybe 1 damage per dice instead
I was thinking of the mechanic, not the number. But yeah could be 1 pr die.
The problem with alot of the newer traits is that they are pretty niche. But they still affect the overall budget.
I would much rather have a d8 1h than a d6 razing, hampering, brace 1h.
The long hammer is effectively a guisarme that goes from d10 to d8 in exchange for brace and B/versatile P instead of S damage. So it'll act like a d12 weapon when brace is activated, but for non-brace turns it'll just be worse. I can't say I see it being a problem MOST of the time for it to be active on all reaction attacks - in the cheesy example given, you have one d8 MAP-0 Strike and then two d12 MAP-0 Strikes, and that costs all of your actions for the round and requires a specific scenario. Is that better than three d10 MAP-0 Strikes, one d10 MAP-5 Strike, and then a third action to reposition, use a skill action, etc.? Probably not in most cases.
I suspect Paizo has caught on to how strong flail and hammer crit specs are.
Flickmace got dropped a die size down.
The Dorn-Dergar is a d10 reach weapon with a mediocre trait (razing) yet it's advanced.
If crits specs were equal it would just be a worse guisarme.
Same goes for the earth breaker.
Maybe an errata that made the hammer/flail crits require a save vs class DC would've been smoother than this.
You could keep a brace weapon worn and ready a quickdraw to trigger its effect too I believe. Could come in handy
Lollerabe wrote: I suspect Paizo has caught on to how strong flail and hammer crit specs are.
Flickmace got dropped a die size down.
The Dorn-Dergar is a d10 reach weapon with a mediocre trait (razing) yet it's advanced.
If crits specs were equal it would just be a worse guisarme.
Same goes for the earth breaker.
Maybe an errata that made the hammer/flail crits require a save vs class DC would've been smoother than this.
I've honestly been expecting this. Quite simply, it's too strong
Martialmasters wrote: Lollerabe wrote: I suspect Paizo has caught on to how strong flail and hammer crit specs are.
Flickmace got dropped a die size down.
The Dorn-Dergar is a d10 reach weapon with a mediocre trait (razing) yet it's advanced.
If crits specs were equal it would just be a worse guisarme.
Same goes for the earth breaker.
Maybe an errata that made the hammer/flail crits require a save vs class DC would've been smoother than this.
I've honestly been expecting this. Quite simply, it's too strong For sure. I think anyone would agree. It's just a strange way to approach it, as it isnt backwards compatible so to speak.
Look at the Warhammer vs longsword/battle axe or maul vs great sword/greataxe. At that point in the design they were deemed equal.
But all of a sudden everything that's a hammer or flail is 1 die size below where it should be.
Dorn-Dergar, long hammer, earth breaker (less so, as I guess you could argue it has enough traits to warrant it compared to a bastard sword). Are all below budget, unless the budget changed behind the scenes.
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