How about the damage difference between an Operative and a Solarian using small arms? The Solarian also lacks Longarms proficiency in the class.My experience was that I was better off multiclassing with Operative than going straight Solarian if I was going with small arms.
A Solarian using small arms should be using Solar Flare. No class except Operative should be using actual small arms except as a joke or low damage backup gimmick that is secondary to something else they're doing.
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A Solarian using small arms should be using Solar Flare. No class except Operative should be using actual small arms except as a joke or low damage backup gimmick that is secondary to something else they're doing.
How about the damage difference between an Operative and a Solarian using small arms? The Solarian also lacks Longarms proficiency in the class.My experience was that I was better off multiclassing with Operative than going straight Solarian if I was going with small arms.
So Dirty Harry was an operative?
As for my Solarian, I was trying an Armor Solarian. Yeah, they are still in the rulebook. I now recommend against them as anything other than a dip.
Really, this is exactly what people are saying. There is a problem when a whole category of weapons are almost useless for anyone not of a specific class. Especially when some classes only get small arms as ranged weapon attacks.
Now there is the Double Tap feat that partially fixes it in exchange for a feat. It was still a system design problem.
I get the frustration, but it does make sense for small arms to deal less damage. Something has to deal less damage, doesn't it? A caster who doesn't spec into using weapons shouldn't do as much as a martial (like a wizard using a crossbow in 1e). And if one really wants to use small arms, mostly for fitting a concept, theres always operative or a few other options to make them your main damage source
@Gaulin - A technomancer is the equivalent of a bard or magus and is not a full caster like a wizard. They should do reasonable damage when attacking with a ranged weapon right out of the gate. Small arms do not do a reasonable amount of damage for anyone but an operative.
It is alright for small arms to do less damage but then they are double penalised with weapon specialization being half as effective (for small arms) it leads me to think that most casters would be much better off with a great axe than a laser pistol and that is just dead wrong for all sorts of reasons. :)
Well agree to disagree I guess. I definitely don't see technomancer being as martially adept as a magus with no investment, but that's going to be a judgement call. Personally I do see bard as a better equivalent, but even they don't do as well as other martials in combat without buffs or feats to help them (as far as I know).
The Solarian and Vanguard both have to spend feats to get something better for ranged combat than Small Arms proficiency. They are both full BAB martial characters and one of them is in the CRB.
I do not find the “well they didn’t train with weapons” argument very convincing.
Bretl makes a stronger point then mine even. Just allow full level to damage on all weapons period. This is a simple fix that is easy to understand and implement. Sure operatives will do a little more damage overall as they level up but the main issue with this class is how they overshadow every other class in the skill department.
Characters that want to be more competent in battle will still move to long arms (or other options) but at least small arms will be a passable out of the box option.
Bretl makes a stronger point then mine even. Just allow full level to damage on all weapons period. This is a simple fix that is easy to understand and implement. Sure operatives will do a little more damage overall as they level up but the main issue with this class is how they overshadow every other class in the skill department.
Are they overtuned or are other classes under tuned? What do other classes do to be good in their niche except encourage a high score and have a slowly growing skill focus? I have a smart mystic that has skill focus in a bunch of skills and they don't play/use their skills much differently than the other classes.
(Even at level 13 he gets mistaken for a technomancer till someone took off the bad guys head and he's like.. wait i can put that back on. Hold on...)
Yes, BNW for real niche protection you will want classes to have unique and powerful skill options that are walled off from other classes. Still if you can make an operative that is essentially as good (in terms of a raw bonus) as the other classes in all the relevant skills it is a real problem. So to answer your question it is a bit of both. Operatives are over tuned and the other classes need more cool and unique skill options to better defend their home turf.
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A Solarian using small arms should be using Solar Flare. No class except Operative should be using actual small arms except as a joke or low damage backup gimmick that is secondary to something else they're doing.
How about the damage difference between an Operative and a Solarian using small arms? The Solarian also lacks Longarms proficiency in the class.My experience was that I was better off multiclassing with Operative than going straight Solarian if I was going with small arms.
So Dirty Harry was an operative?
Dirty Harry was in a game where no one had enough HP to guarantee survive a pistol shot. If he was, he would have used a better weapon.
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I'd like to see Two Weapon Fighting be a bit better. I think right now all you get is a feat that gives you +1 to hit if you attack with both weapons in a full attack. And of course, it lets you make a choice between two weapons if one would be better in a given situation, but I think I'd rather just have a weapon that's conventionally stronger.
One advantage of small arms should be that you have a free hand, but in practice that doesn't really amount to much since very few classes even get shield proficiency. Casters can use a free hand to get support from gimmicks (from Galactic Magic), but eventually with integrated weapons and cybernetic arms, that advantage of a free hand becomes less and less relevant.
Changing grip on a weapon is also a swift action in Starfinder, compared to chewing up one of your three generic actions in PF2 and provoking an AoO. (Hello again, poorly explained "Manipulate" keyword.)
I'm trying to remember the last time someone did that and I'm coming up bnlank. You wake up and take out your sword, or your gun with a sword cane in the bayonette backet.
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What should hypothetical Starfinder 2e do differently from PF2e?
Not exist for several more years so I can keep enjoying SF.
/s (Not really though)
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The small arms thing always felt so dumb to me. You have this category of weapon that's intentionally bad and then you give the Operative an overbearing combat gimmick to make up for it... basically creating an entire category of weapon that only exists for a single class.
I don't see how anyone can really defend that as good or fun design, it's one of the biggest failings of SF (along with their skill system, imo).
I definitely don't see technomancer being as martially adept as a magus with no investment, but that's going to be a judgement call.
I mean it's not really a matter of seeing or not seeing. Technomancers use the same attack progression as PF1 bards and magi, not wizards or sorcerers. That's just how the class is built.