Nagging upgrade magic item question

[OmniMage]

This question has been nagging me for a while.

When upgrading a slotted magic item, the rules say that the new ability costs 50% more to add. It don't matter if the new ability is cheaper or more expensive than the existing ability. Thats gotta be a typo. The paragraph before said improving magic weapons only cost the difference between the new and old version.

If I understand this right, it means its more cost effective to sell the old item, then craft a new one from scratch that has all the abilities you want. I think this would be quite a chore advancing as your characters level up. Table 15-29 says that the cheaper ability has its cost increased by 50%, which is how I think upgrading sloted magic items should work.

Is there an errata that I missed somewhere?

[zza ni]

you are mixing between ADDING a new ability and UPGRADING an existing ability.

the 50% more is for adding a new ability, not upgrading an existing one for a higher form.

when you add an ability for example:
you have a belt +2 str that cost 4k base price and 2k to make. you want to give it +2 to dex it cost you 50% more.
so base price of 4k(1.5)= +6k.
look at that! the total base price would be 10k the same price as a belt with +2 to two abilities!

but upgrading a +2 belt to +4 is not adding an ability (since you 'lose' the +2) and here you only pay the deference between them. so a +4 cost 16k base price. the belt had 4k base price then you need to add 12k base price work. or 6k crafting cost. with the fact you had 2k crafting cost for the +2 that make the crafting cost 8k the exact crafting cost of a +4 belt!

adding:
4k base price + 6k base price = 10k base price

upgrading:
4k base price + 12k base price = 16k base price

halve costs when crafting it yourself.

[zza ni]

1st let's be clear. first rule is that adding\upgrading is only auto allowed for items that are exsiting already in game. not costume made items. so if you want a ring of wizardry + invisibility that is custom made and need gm approval.

next a ring of wizardry base costs are : 20k, 40k, 70k and 100k.

now there is a whole difference between making a ring of wizardry that double all spell levels of 1 to 4. and taking a ring I and making it a ring IV (ring IV only double spells of the 4th level and not the 1st!)

in the case of upgrading a type 1 to type 4 the cost would be the deference between them.

so the I is 20k and IV is 100 so if you already have a I making it a IV would cost 80k base price or 40K crafting.

making a ring of I+II+III+IV would cost you 50% for every ability beyond the 1st. if going by order would cost in base price

20k +40(1.5)=60k +70(1.5)=105k + 100(1.5)=150k total of 335k gp base price or 167.5k crating cost.

now it might change if you start with a type IV and add the rest per rules if every added ability cost extra half cost. BUT since this is a custom made item the gm has every right to price the total based on the above calculation. or not allow it to be upgraded at all if he doesn't like it.

EDIT: it seem that while i was posting this the post about ring of wizardry was deleted so it might seem out of context.

[OmniMage]

zza ni wrote:

EDIT: it seem that while i was posting this the post about ring of wizardry was deleted so it might seem out of context.

I'll repost it. It was posted 2 minutes after yours, so I thought I would delete it until I've read your post.

Deleted post:

Perhaps an example will help.

Lets say a Wizard is going to craft magic rings to improve their spellcasting. Rings of wizardry levels 1 to 4. Unfortunately, like most characters, the wizard can only wear 2 rings at a time. To get around this, the wizard decides to craft a single ring that has the effects of all 4 rings.

According to the rules:

Crafting it from scratch will cost 147,500 gp (1/2 of 295,000 gp).

Alternatively, the wizard started out as a low level wizard and did not have the ability or the money needed to craft it from scratch. Instead they crafted the ring with the first ability (wizardry 1) and worked to upgrade it between adventures. It therefore would cost 167,500 gp (1/2 of 335,000 gp) to finish, 20,000 gp more than crafting it from scratch.

[zza ni]

i see you get 295k if you start with crafting a IV type and then add the rest

100k+105+60+30

but as i said the prices may change depending with what item you begin with.

and since you are talking about an item that doesn't exist in the item lists but a custom made one the crafting cost is up to the gm. he has every right saying that when you upgrade it the cost would be per the most expensive ability and not the cheapest. or not allow you to upgrade it at all. he can also say that when adding powers to a custom made item the added abilities must be on per or more costly then the ones it had.
it's a custom made item so it's up to the gm to decide how to balance it. see the whole item-with-constant-'true strike' threads. (by the rules crafting it should cost around 2k base price).

the crafting rules acknowledge that the rules are not foolproof and need gm attention and one of the things they say is that when pricing a custom item the gm should look at existing items and price according to them.

if this was brought to me i would simply do the +50% as per the expensive costs and leave the lesser at base. so going back to front. crafting first 'IV' then adding 'III', 'II' and 'I' would cost:

100k base > + 50k (IVx0.5)base + 70k (III) base> + 35k(IIIx0.5) +40k(II) > +20k(IIx0.5) base +20k(I) = 100+50+70+35+40+20+20 = 335k base price as the first example.

[Diego Rossi]

The advantage of upgrading items (both by adding new abilities, or increasing existing ones) is that you pay only what you add, so often a fraction of the cost of making the item from scratch.

The GMs I know will have you pay the difference between making the item starting from 0 and the cost of making the current item. As Pathfinder tries to avoid needless bookkeeping having the item priced that way removes the need to keep e record of what it was originally. But every item that mixt the powers of multiple items is a custom item, so, as zza ni said, it needs GM approval for it to be feasible.

[Taja the Barbarian]

The GP value of an item isn't changed by the order in which you assemble it, so neither is the 'cost' to create it:

Calculate the 'minimal' creation cost of the new item
Calculate the creation cost of the current item
Pay the difference to upgrade the current item to the new version.

It doesn't necessarily make economic sense, but neither does the fantasy economy in general, so don't lose any sleep over it...

[OmniMage]

Diego Rossi wrote:

The GMs I know will have you pay the difference between making the item starting from 0 and the cost of making the current item. As Pathfinder tries to avoid needless bookkeeping having the item priced that way removes the need to keep e record of what it was originally. But every item that mixt the powers of multiple items is a custom item, so, as zza ni said, it needs GM approval for it to be feasible.

... In all my years I never considered that it might be a shortcut to avoid needless book keeping. Though, I find it odd that WotC also wrote the rules for epic spells, which is not simple.

[OmniMage]

Well, I think my question has been answered. The 3rd paragraph saying that all new abilities that are added to slotted magic items cost 50% (no matter what), is not a typo. Or at least thats the impression I got from replies in this thread.

I'm definitely going to house rule away this 'mistake' and make the cost to upgrade or add new abilities to be the difference between the new and the old version of the magic item in question.