Is outsider to the planet, plane or universe?

[Senko]

I'm fairly sure there's no rules on this given its outside the context of when they were made. So I'm seeking second opinions on when someone is an outsider. Would you classify someone as an outsider or not and if they have native subtype would that apply or not in the following situations?

Scenario: Travel to another plane e.g human to a demiplane created by the spell or djinn to the material plane?
My view: Yes an outsider for both.
Native Subtype: Yes but invalidates the other e.g. native outsider djinn is an outsider on the plane of fire.

Scenario: Travel to another planet in the same plane e.g. human scion aasimar golarion to Earth.
My View: No not an outsider.
Native Subtype: Yes if it applies on Golarion then it applies on earth.

Scenario: Travel to a parallel world (as hinted by a number of classes and abilities) e.g. character from canon golarion to the one where the worldwound never opened or Aroden wasn't killed.
My view: Yes they are an outsider to the new reality.

Your thoughts?

[Bjørn Røyrvik]

Entirely unhelpful answer: Personally I'd like a redesign of planar nativity that was a lot more relativistic. 'Outsider' would just mean 'not native to plane we are on', and you could have a more detailed set of native abilities for the various groups of planes. The groups would have to be determined based on the cosmology of setting in question, but commone groups would be Elemental, Prime, Outer and Transitive (possibly letting Astral and Etheral be separate groups). As long as the cosmologies are basically the same, alternate timelines shouldn't matter since group belonging would be based on innate properties of the planes rather than specific manifestations of them.

[Claxon]

I think what you need to look at is the extraplanar trait and to remember that the rules are written with a focus on adventures on material plane and from the perspective of the PCs.

But when a character leaves their normal plane of residence, they do gain the extraplanar trait. Which allows them to be subject to spells like Dismissal.

Quote:

Extraplanar Subtype

This subtype is applied to any creature when it is on a plane other than its native plane. A creature that travels the planes can gain or lose this subtype as it goes from plane to plane. Monster entries assume that encounters with creatures take place on the Material Plane, and every creature whose native plane is not the Material Plane has the extraplanar subtype (but would not have it when on its home plane). Every extraplanar creature in this book has a home plane mentioned in its description. creatures not labeled as extraplanar are natives of the Material Plane, and they gain the extraplanar subtype if they leave the Material Plane. No creature has the extraplanar subtype when it is on a transitive plane, such as the Astral Plane, the Ethereal Plane, or the Plane of Shadow.

So outsider specifically refers to things like Devils, Archons, etc. Being made from the essence of their home planes. But you can be extraplanar without being an outsider.

So no, your human character never becomes an outsider (unless they have some special class feature that says so) but they can become extraplanar by leaving the material plane.

[Claxon]

So first scneario, no you're not an outsider but you gain the extraplanar subtype.

Second scenario, no. Doesn't gain extraplanar as you didn't leave the plane.

Third scenario, as far as I'm aware there isn't any cannon ability that allows for travel to parallel universes. Ignoring that part, I would say that if you're from the material plane and end up on the alternate material plane your not treated as extraplanar.

So the multiverse is what I normal use to describe all the planes (including material) but will sometimes refer to it as simple "the universe".

Plane are like heaven, hell, material, etc. Travelling to something other than your home plane makes you extraplanar.

Travelling between planets isn't common, but it's not a different plane so nothing changes.

[Claxon]

I think the big problem here is you've confused the terms outsider with extraplanar.

[Taja the Barbarian]

Being an 'outsider' is actually a question of what you are, not where you are from:

Outsider wrote:

Source Pathfinder RPG Bestiary pg. 309

An outsider is at least partially composed of the essence (but not necessarily the material) of some plane other than the Material Plane. Some creatures start out as some other type and become outsiders when they attain a higher (or lower) state of spiritual existence. An outsider has the following features.
...

[Senko]

So for example a human scion aasimar would always be a native outsider but might also be an extraplanar native outsider depending on where they are. I did not know that.

[Temperans]

The way the outsider type is structure is like this: Outside (home plane subtype).

The native subtype thus lets you know that the outsider is native to the material plane and is treated as a mortal for resurrection, eating, and sleeping. As you correctly guessed, yes that means you can be an extraplanar outsider (native).

Even more complicated is the augmented subtype, which could give you an: Extraplanar Fey (Augmented (Outsider (Native)))