Familiar Conduit and Cone Spells

[PapaZoubi]

I’ve got a rules question that I need help with. I’m working to make my Witch utilize his familiar as much as possible. He is going down the Familiar Master path and will be taking Familiar Conduit in a couple levels.

My question is this: Familiar Conduit states:

“Under your tutelage, your familiar has grown attuned to the hidden currents of the world and can serve as a conduit for your magic. If the next action you use is to Cast a Spell that has a range, the spell uses the familiar as its origin point.”

While this is great for extending the range of many spells, spells that have a Cone or Line area of effect don’t list a range in the spell description. They cover an area but since they originate at the caster they don’t list a range.

Is there some errata or official ruling out there that clarifies this allowing me to originate my cone and line spells from my familiar? I love the idea of doing touch spells (Range of Touch) and other close combat spells from my familiar but without some official ruling it won’t be allowed in my campaign.

One item of note in the description for the Area of Effect for Cones is:

“If you make a cone originate from someone or something else, follow these same rules, with the first square of the cone using an edge or corner of that creature or object’s space instead of your own.”

It seems that there is a way to originate the cone from a point aside from the caster and this would be prefect with Familiar Conduit but I can’t find any official reference to making this happen.

Any help for putting my familiar in harms way of close combat instead of my witch would be greatly appreciated.

[breithauptclan]

Hmm... I guess that technically Familiar Conduit does have that restriction on only spells that have a range.

I always read it as being equivalent to the Sorcerer feat Spell Relay where you can use the other character as the origin point of the spell.

So check with your GM if they actually want to hold you to the letter of the law or not.

[PapaZoubi]

breithauptclan wrote:

Hmm... I guess that technically Familiar Conduit does have that restriction on only spells that have a range.

I always read it as being equivalent to the Sorcerer feat Spell Relay where you can use the other character as the origin point of the spell.

So check with your GM if they actually want to hold you to the letter of the law or not.

I've checked with him before posting here and he is a stickler for the Rules as Written.

I don't blame him, he has a bunch of old gamers he has to contend with and we can get very creative, especially if given the slack to run wild.

It will take official errata, one of the Paizo staff weighing in or some other official ruling on it, not just how I or others might like to interpret it.

Thus my reaching out to the community for any official reference that I haven't been able to yet dig up with all of the searching that I've done so far...

[breithauptclan]

Then no, I am not aware of any official fixes for that.

[dhemery]

As the GM in question, I'm also interested in this. I keep look at that "If you make a cone originate from someone or something else…" and wonder what kinds of spells or abilities allow you to make a cone originate from someone else. A few months ago I spent some time looking, and didn't find any. But there must be some way, or that sentence wouldn't have any application.

[breithauptclan]

One is the Spell Relay ability from Sorcerer. A Wizard could cast Burning Hands, the Sorcerer could use Spell Relay, and the cone would originate from the Sorcerer instead of the Wizard that cast it.

Another is Starlit Span Magus with Expansive Spellstrike. They can use Spellstrike to cast Burning Hands tied to an arrow that gets launched 40 feet away. The cone will originate from any adjacent square of the target as long as it faces away from the Magus and includes the target in the area.

[dhemery]

Spell Relay requires that you be in range of the ally’s spell. I think that means that the spell must have a range. But Burning Hands doesn’t have a range.

Expansive Spellstrike looks like a great example of a way to make a cone spell originate somewhere other than the caster.

I found another: Charged Creation.

[breithauptclan]

dhemery wrote:

Spell Relay requires that you be in range of the ally’s spell. I think that means that the spell must have a range. But Burning Hands doesn’t have a range.

Yeah, I suppose that is technically accurate. Being within 15 feet of the caster would put you in the spell's area, not its range.

[PapaZoubi]

Good to see that there are a couple instances out there of a spell specifically allowing a cone or line to originate from another person/location other than the caster. Not very many and the Spell Relay falls prey to the same challenge that Familiar Conduit suffers from with the Range being the restricting wording.