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It's not perfect, the class has its issues, but I still think it's awesome. I hit level 4 in the game I'm playing in with a vital niche Evo and I'm having a blast. I just maxed str, picked a melee kac adaptive strike, heavy armor feat from level 1, and grabbed a str personal upgrade as soon as I could. The campaign so far has been light on credits and I feel like I'm the powerhouse of the group.
Yes, the boosts from maintaining MP are mostly not very good. They are either small enhancement bonuses you can easily get in other ways, things that honestly should maybe just be built into the class (like crit effects), or are pretty good but take too long to get to (pretty much just the extra bit of damage). It's questionable if the drawbacks of maintaining MP is worth the benefits some of the niches give. A lot of the adaptations aren't very strong, especially for certain builds, and even then you run into the problem that equipment can provide some of the same benefits some adaptations give. Out of combat utility is wanting in early levels, it would definitely be nice to be able to gain a climb or swim speed out of combat from level 1 for example.
But in my small experience, a person doesn't always have the wealth to have an always on level weapon, or the wealth for that new augmentation, or the space for another armor upgrade. Evolutionist does a good job of getting you some of the base features that are super helpful; a good weapon, on level augment (very versatile, and also making sure you get a personal upgrade if it's not easily obtainable is pretty great), mobility tools, senses, damage types, resistances, etc. And if you do have a bunch of money, spend it on other stuff! No shortage of awesome equipment in this game.
And the best part of the class is the flavor. Any sort of monstery thing, robot, magical being, undead monstrosity you can think of, you can make.
I've said this in a few places but this class has the most potential to grow. A lot of the adaptations pretty much has to be used to give options like flight and senses and such since it's pretty integral to a lot of monstery tropes. Now that they're printed and out of the way, there's a huge amount of fun options that I'm sure the devs will come up with.
It's fine not to like the class, I get it completely. At the same time, I reeeally do t think it's so bad that people should tell people not to play it, because to some people it really is a great time.
It's not perfect, the class has its issues, but I still think it's awesome. I hit level 4 in the game I'm playing in with a vital niche Evo and I'm having a blast. I just maxed str, picked a melee kac adaptive strike, heavy armor feat from level 1, and grabbed a str personal upgrade as soon as I could. The campaign so far has been light on credits and I feel like I'm the powerhouse of the group.
Yes, the boosts from maintaining MP are mostly not very good. They are either small enhancement bonuses you can easily get in other ways, things that honestly should maybe just be built into the class (like crit effects), or are pretty good but take too long to get to (pretty much just the extra bit of damage). It's questionable if the drawbacks of maintaining MP is worth the benefits some of the niches give. A lot of the adaptations aren't very strong, especially for certain builds, and even then you run into the problem that equipment can provide some of the same benefits some adaptations give. Out of combat utility is wanting in early levels, it would definitely be nice to be able to gain a climb or swim speed out of combat from level 1 for example.
But in my small experience, a person doesn't always have the wealth to have an always on level weapon, or the wealth for that new augmentation, or the space for another armor upgrade. Evolutionist does a good job of getting you some of the base features that are super helpful; a good weapon, on level augment (very versatile, and also making sure you get a personal upgrade if it's not easily obtainable is pretty great), mobility tools, senses, damage types, resistances, etc. And if you do have a bunch of money, spend it on other stuff! No shortage of awesome equipment in this game.
And the best part of the class is the flavor. Any sort of monstery thing, robot, magical being, undead monstrosity you can think of, you can make.
I've said this in a few places but this class has the most potential to grow. A lot of the adaptations pretty much has to be used to...
Hey I was looking for something like this, and that’s great! I’m hoping that the class does offer a lot of room for growth, maybe some tweaking, because I really would like to be excited about this class. Maybe I have to fiddle with it more to really find the right build.
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There's no right way to build a character. Some people build a character in a kitchen some build in a mechanics' garage.
I soundly reject the sentiment presented here with words that are not permitted on the boards for fear of offending the delicate sensibilities of our sailors and teamsters.
Stormwind is a fallacy. Not a rule The or dichotomy you're proposing here is a gamer specific either or fallacy , that your character is either made flavorful (Kitchen) or made with mechanicy mechanics (garage).
There is absolutely nothing, zero, zilch, nada about considering your mechanics that requires that you suck the flavor out a character. On the contrary, good characters play mechanics and story off of each other. Good mechanics enhance, enable and show the character doing what they're supposed to be. The alternative is to violate show don't tell: if you're telling me the character is an amazing computer hacker but they're no better than Bob from Beastbuy* there's a problem.
The class is supposed to be dynamic and versatile. It is static and ineffective. Many of its abilities do little or nothing in ways that are not apparently obvious. It's one thing to have a bad ability (you don't take it) or one thing like the envoys consolation prize for skill focus , but there are a LOT of those built into the core mechanic of the class.
By all means, build a versatile adaptive character that can react to any given situation by changing themselves and or their team mates. Build a character intent on self improvement or evolving into something. But don't assume that because it's the tagline of this class that this class is the best way to play that character.
If everyone accepts the status quo, there's no pressure for this class to evolve to its potential.
*beastbuy is notorious for their gremlin infestations and bits of intern stuck in the keys.
But in my small experience, a person doesn't always have the wealth to have an always on level weapon, or the wealth for that new augmentation, or the space for another armor upgrade. Evolutionist does a good job of getting you some of the base features that are super helpful; a good weapon, on level augment (very versatile, and also making sure you get a personal upgrade if it's not easily obtainable is pretty great), mobility tools, senses, damage types, resistances, etc. And if you do have a bunch of money, spend it on other stuff! No shortage of awesome equipment in this game.
Many species come with an on level weapon (natural weapon) and those that don't can pick one up for 1,000 credits. At level 3 thats a reasonable chunk of change. At level 6 its pocket money even if you're being skimped on cash.
The money being saved does not scale very well so it really doesn't help that much as you level.
getting one augmentation is great at level 3 when you have one or maybe 2 augmentations. But at level 6 when you have 6 or so getting 1 more for free is just kind of diluted.
You can get the same benefit just by skimping in between new armor purchases.
Even worse for the evaluation of that ability, When I get an augmentation in a slot I usually keep it. To get the most out of that ability you're either gaining one of 6 augmentations for free, or getting the difference between your two most expensive augmentations.
IE, if my most expensive upgrade is the skittermander heart and I want to upgrade to a +4 strength magic crystal I'm not getting a free crystal. Im getting a free crystal and replacing my skittermander heart. Or I have a free level 3 skittermander heart not a free level 6 crystal.
Your character is low level with a high strength. That and a full bab are enough to be functional.
(you don't even need the full bab)
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There's no right way to build a character. Some people build a character in a kitchen some build in a mechanics' garage.I soundly reject the sentiment presented here with words that are not permitted on the boards for fear of offending the delicate sensibilities of our sailors and teamsters.
Mechanics-wise, that comment also goes to 11.
Flavor-wise, that comment goes to 11.
Stormwind is a fallacy. Not a rule The or dichotomy you're proposing here is a gamer specific either or fallacy , that your character is either made flavorful (Kitchen) or made with mechanicy mechanics (garage).There is absolutely nothing, zero, zilch, nada about considering your mechanics that requires that you suck the flavor out a character. On the contrary, good characters play mechanics and story off of each other. Good mechanics enhance, enable and show the character doing what they're supposed to be. The alternative is to violate show don't tell: if you're telling me the character is an amazing computer hacker but they're no better than Bob from Beastbuy* there's a problem.
My point wasn't that mechanics and flavor are mutually separate. People that build in the kitchen start with flavor to find the mechanics. People in the garage start with mechanics to find the flavor.
The class is supposed to be dynamic and versatile. It is static and ineffective. Many of its abilities do little or nothing in ways that are not apparently obvious. It's one thing to have a bad ability (you don't take it) or one thing like the envoys consolation prize for skill focus , but there are a LOT of those built into the core mechanic of the class.By all means, build a versatile adaptive character that can react to any given situation by changing themselves and or their team mates. Build a character intent on self improvement or evolving into something. But don't assume that because it's the tagline of this class that this class is the best way to play that character.
If everyone accepts the status quo, there's no pressure for this class to evolve to its potential.
I think the Evolutionist is a fun class, yes. I got two fun characters from it. Could it be better? Absolutely, I think currently it's currently too focused on combat. It would be nice if some adaptations could be used out side of combat. Some alternative class features, including key ability score used for the class. More adaptations would go a long way to make it suitable for more character concepts. I'd like to see more adaptions that, over time, slowly replace your starting species with traits and abilities of your ending species and not just get become something new at level 20.
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Some of the new species in Ports of Call look like good species for playing an Evolutionist. The selamid are amorphous oozes, and the thyr are amorphous gaseous oozes. Evolving to take on a solid form of another species seems like a good fit. One of the ways a Thyr's life ends causes them to destabilize spectacularly like a supernova, which would be perfect for them to evolve into a novan.
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Thoughts on the evolutionist options in Enhanced. The Divine niche looks like a really interesting option. But to work it really needs to be played in an adventure that cares about alignment. I like the concept of evolving to better serve a deity or a spiritual or cult cause. This brings up the question of what deities or causes are best served by someone evolving a strange mutated evolving arm?
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This brings up the question of what deities or causes are best served by someone evolving a strange mutated evolving arm?
Any demons/devils who want you to beat up on celestials, Iomadae and Saranrae for beating up on fiends.
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Thinking about Evolutionist Adaptations from Enhanced again (I discussed them in my Enhanced posts around the time it came out), and they're mostly still pretty bad.
They seems to lean into two combat styles: passive buffs that are pretty meh, and active buffs that cost you a move action to be decent. Evolutionist: The Standard Attack Full BAB Class.
If you do want to go full attacking with the combat speciality you need to lean in hard to the passive adaptation selections to reduce temptation to spend actions. Movement/sense passives, adapative/ranged/area strikes for emergencies when your full attack isn't optimal, and maybe now Duplicate System to have All Of The Augmentations, Muahaha!
Secondary Strike is here for those who wanted a ranged and melee strike, but not until 10th, you suffer a damage decrease, and you still have the "not my primary attack attribute" issue I warned people about who wanted this.
Sudden Skill is such a sad ability compared to the Nanocyte "gimme free skillz on demand" ability in the same book.
Enhanced Strike is "ok, pretend to be a Vanguard or Nanocyte and add a weapon trait to your weapon, too." Fine, but they simulataneously made this VERY interesting by including polarize and completely useless by not including a dice value.
Energy Immunity adaptation on top of resistant form and enhanced resistant form is pretty amazing, I'll give them that. Just shut down so many threats.
I wonder if nanocyte, biohacker, and evolutionist will see any combination of consolidations like precog got getting rolled into witchwarper
There's only one release left in the SF1 line (aside from Starfinder Society scenarios), and that's the Mechageddon! adventure path. I would be surprised if the PC option in that expanded past some new mech-related options.
In terms of official releases, I think we can safely assume the 1E evolutionist is "feature complete."
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Hey guys:)
I Wwonder if there will be more contempts (Adaptations,Niches,etc) in future/upcoming releases (if there is any future/upcoming releases for SF1e...)
The Evolutionist deserves more love, I think.
The class is so flavorful.
In love with it (and yes, I know it's far from a percectly/balanced class by now), I played one (melee/kac/vital) and I was a pretty good killing machine, with an incredible survability, slightly less dpr than our Solarian, but omg survability.
And the drawbacks are clearly manageable (we are currently lvl 9, and I'm still enjoying it a lot)
Starfinder Enhanced was the last rule book for Starfinder 1e. It added the Divine niche and more adaptations. Too soon to tell when we'll see the Evolutionist in SF2e but it won't be in the core rule book.
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I wonder if nanocyte, biohacker, and evolutionist will see any combination of consolidations like precog got getting rolled into witchwarper
That an interesting idea, both nanocyte, biohacker, could be used to explain why someone was evolving. The odd thing about the Evolutionist, it's a class with the end goal of changing your creature type. I wonder if in SF2e if it might be better as a special type of versatile heritage that grants a free Evolutionist archetype that could be appalled to any class or ancestry. The versatile heritage part would deal with over time changing what ancestry or creature type you took feats from, and the archetype part would add the mutation points or adaptions.
I wonder if nanocyte, biohacker, and evolutionist will see any combination of consolidations like precog got getting rolled into witchwarperThat an interesting idea, both nanocyte, biohacker, could be used to explain why someone was evolving. The odd thing about the Evolutionist, it's a class with the end goal of changing your creature type. I wonder if in SF2e if it might be better as a special type of versatile heritage that grants a free Evolutionist archetype that could be appalled to any class or ancestry. The versatile heritage part would deal with over time changing what ancestry or creature type you took feats from, and the archetype part would add the mutation points or adaptions.
I'm not sure the heritage is necessary here. PF2 already has "change your creature type as an archetype" shenanigans. It's got "become an undead" archetypes, it's got one for becoming more of an ooze...
...but those point out one of the issues with taking that path, in that it's fundamentally limited. In the PF2 chassis, you only get what you buy, and you can only buy with the coins that are in the appropriate purse. Your class is always going to be the core of your build, and thus the core of your build budget. Given that, I'd much rather see a full on class covering this stuff, so that you could afford to take it all the way out in power, than to see it constrained to an archetype. Those that wish to dabble can take the MC archetype for the class.
As a different way to look at it... your class is your career. It's your core. Your archetypes are your hobbies and side gigs. I think there's enough narrative space to have "person who mucks around with their own body" be the core of what they do.
As far as fusions... I feel like biohacker and evolutionist are fundamentally different. Evolutionist is all about modifying your own body - turning your physical form into an ever more effective and flexible tool with which to Do Things. Essentially all of the really awesome things that you're doing are things that your'e doing to yourself, and they tend to be permanent. The stuff you do to the outside world is just a matter of wielding the tools that you've already put in place. On the flip side, biohacker is all about hitting your allies and enemies with temporary effects. You generally aren't doing anything to yourself that you aren't doing to others. It feels very alchemist in some ways. I'm a little fuzzier on nanocyte, but I feel like you could almost carve that one in half, with one half being fed to each of the other two.
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Evolutionist is ripe for a re-imagining in SF2, I think. I have said in the past that it occupies a weird space that could work better as something other than a class: an archetype, a feat chain, or something. If PF2 already has stuff in that similar design space (changing your character's type, through non-class mechanics) I would not be surprised to see the evolutionist moving in that direction in 2e.