Critical Role switch to Pathfinder 2e?


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Themetricsystem wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:
Yeah, they played PF1E prior to Critical Role, but switched to 5E for "brand recognition" reasons. Hence why Percy is a gunslinger, when none existed in 5E at the time...they homebrewed it.

There is that plus the fact that for audiences it is WAY better to eschew as much of the fiddling with sheets, checking numbers, referencing specific rules, and rolling dice when you're putting on what is essentially an improv show that has underlying randomization elements to it.

Undoubtedly, 5e is way easier to film than PF1 or even PF2 for that matter.

Somewhat. They do plenty of the fiddling with sheets, checking numbers, referencing specific rules, and rolling dice.

There are other groups streaming PF2 as well. None with the fanbase of CR, but I doubt that's entirely based on the game mechanics.

A lighter game is probably better suited to the gming style, even without the show aspects.


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Themetricsystem wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:
Yeah, they played PF1E prior to Critical Role, but switched to 5E for "brand recognition" reasons. Hence why Percy is a gunslinger, when none existed in 5E at the time...they homebrewed it.

There is that plus the fact that for audiences it is WAY better to eschew as much of the fiddling with sheets, checking numbers, referencing specific rules, and rolling dice when you're putting on what is essentially an improv show that has underlying randomization elements to it.

Undoubtedly, 5e is way easier to film than PF1 or even PF2 for that matter.

I mean you can play fast and loose with PF2 as well, it'd just take an incredibly good GM that takes on the burden of keeping things consistent while the players agree not to get too crazy. Heck in some ways it's easier since you there is clear guidance on creating DCs on the fly.

And the trickier elements of complicated hazards and all kinds of difficult terrain etc are optional and not the best idea for an entertainment show that shouldn't bog down.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Zaister wrote:
Hassan Izhar wrote:
Critical Role is a popular web series that features a group of voice actors playing the role-playing game Dungeons & Dragons. The show originally used the 3.5 edition of the rules, but later switched to using the 5th edition of the rules.
Actually, by now, it is a group of actors playing people playing the role-playing game Dungeons & Dragons. If that's not mostly scripted these days, I'll eat my hat.

Ah yes, the very easy task of writing, memorising and perfectly acting 4 hours of new scripted content weekly.

If it is scripted they aren't just voice actors, they are the greatest thespians in history.

I've watched every episode of Critical Role, Dimension 20 and other actual play shows, and not one I've watched appears scripted.

But it's a pretty great compliment to give improvisers that you feel that way.

Would you like any condiments for your hat?


DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
Zaister wrote:
Hassan Izhar wrote:
Critical Role is a popular web series that features a group of voice actors playing the role-playing game Dungeons & Dragons. The show originally used the 3.5 edition of the rules, but later switched to using the 5th edition of the rules.
Actually, by now, it is a group of actors playing people playing the role-playing game Dungeons & Dragons. If that's not mostly scripted these days, I'll eat my hat.

Ah yes, the very easy task of writing, memorising and perfectly acting 4 hours of new scripted content weekly.

If it is scripted they aren't just voice actors, they are the greatest thespians in history.

I've watched every episode of Critical Role, Dimension 20 and other actual play shows, and not one I've watched appears scripted.

But it's a pretty great compliment to give improvisers that you feel that way.

Would you like any condiments for your hat?

Not only that, but if it's scripted it's deliberately scripted to be less tight, less dramatic, to include more wasted time and floundering around.

It's certainly a more narrative game style than a lot of people like and I wouldn't be surprised if they talk about aiming for some character/plot points ahead of time, but not much more than that.


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Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I'm not saying the dialogues are scripted word for word, but the general plot development and decisions of the party and such things.


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Zaister wrote:
I'm not saying the dialogues are scripted word for word, but the general plot development and decisions of the party and such things.

maybe but that's not much different then running a paizo AP, or any published adventure.


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thejeff wrote:
DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
Zaister wrote:
Hassan Izhar wrote:
Critical Role is a popular web series that features a group of voice actors playing the role-playing game Dungeons & Dragons. The show originally used the 3.5 edition of the rules, but later switched to using the 5th edition of the rules.
Actually, by now, it is a group of actors playing people playing the role-playing game Dungeons & Dragons. If that's not mostly scripted these days, I'll eat my hat.

Ah yes, the very easy task of writing, memorising and perfectly acting 4 hours of new scripted content weekly.

If it is scripted they aren't just voice actors, they are the greatest thespians in history.

I've watched every episode of Critical Role, Dimension 20 and other actual play shows, and not one I've watched appears scripted.

But it's a pretty great compliment to give improvisers that you feel that way.

Would you like any condiments for your hat?

Not only that, but if it's scripted it's deliberately scripted to be less tight, less dramatic, to include more wasted time and floundering around.

You make it sound as if it's difficult. Throw in time for ad lobbing and it's quite easy.


Freehold DM wrote:
thejeff wrote:
DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
Zaister wrote:
Hassan Izhar wrote:
Critical Role is a popular web series that features a group of voice actors playing the role-playing game Dungeons & Dragons. The show originally used the 3.5 edition of the rules, but later switched to using the 5th edition of the rules.
Actually, by now, it is a group of actors playing people playing the role-playing game Dungeons & Dragons. If that's not mostly scripted these days, I'll eat my hat.

Ah yes, the very easy task of writing, memorising and perfectly acting 4 hours of new scripted content weekly.

If it is scripted they aren't just voice actors, they are the greatest thespians in history.

I've watched every episode of Critical Role, Dimension 20 and other actual play shows, and not one I've watched appears scripted.

But it's a pretty great compliment to give improvisers that you feel that way.

Would you like any condiments for your hat?

Not only that, but if it's scripted it's deliberately scripted to be less tight, less dramatic, to include more wasted time and floundering around.
You make it sound as if it's difficult. Throw in time for ad lobbing and it's quite easy.

Not just some ad libbing, but there's plenty of sequences that sound like any party floundering around not knowing where to go next and the GM trying to get them back on track without being obvious.

They're better at doing it all in character than most groups I've played with, but they're not better at making progress.
And that makes it worse as a narrative.


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Freehold DM wrote:
Throw in time for ad lobbing and it's quite easy.

I once had a DM who lobbed things at us all the time.


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Anyone expecting Critical Role to actually swap to 5e is being, uh, VERY optimistic.

Matt Mercer might claim to hate capitalism but he chases that bag as hard as anyone else (if not harder). He's going wherever the money is, and currently the cash flow is coming from Wizards.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
A Spotify Link

Thanks, this was entertaining! They actually sounded pretty hyped about PF2E.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
Hassan Izhar wrote:
Critical Role is a popular web series that features a group of voice actors playing the role-playing game Dungeons & Dragons. The show originally used the 3.5 edition of the rules, but later switched to using the 5th edition of the rules.

People who unironically say Pathfinder is "just 3.5" are being really insulting to Jason Buhlmann and others who put a lot of effort into rewriting some of the SRD content.

Shadow Lodge

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I mean, houserules are still just modifications to the base, no matter how big the house.


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Pathfinder 1e has always from the very beginning branded itself as a spiritual successor, updated, and backwards compatible with 3.5e. Anyone that says otherwise needs to go read up on some history. There is a reason its called 3.75e.

This is not being insulting nor unappreciative. Its calling things for what they are and even they themselves acknowledge it.

Liberty's Edge

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PF1 is NOT 3.5 though.

Liberty's Edge

Storm Dragon wrote:

Anyone expecting Critical Role to actually swap to 5e is being, uh, VERY optimistic.

Matt Mercer might claim to hate capitalism but he chases that bag as hard as anyone else (if not harder). He's going wherever the money is, and currently the cash flow is coming from Wizards.

I would have said very idealistic.

But yes, I do not see why CR would stop using 5e. It did them a huge lot good after all. And I do not see why it would not keep on giving, no matter what we here wish.


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Storm Dragon wrote:

Anyone expecting Critical Role to actually swap to 5e is being, uh, VERY optimistic.

Matt Mercer might claim to hate capitalism but he chases that bag as hard as anyone else (if not harder). He's going wherever the money is, and currently the cash flow is coming from Wizards.

Funny how being trapped in a capitalist hellscape forces one to engage with the capitalist hellscape.


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Ultimately, I doubt Critical Role will abandon DnD but I think overall this will have a profoundly chilling effect on other media of a similar type. Critical Role is just one actual play show and the vast, vast majority do not have the in that CR does with Wizards.

After tipping their hand this blatantly, I can guarantee that the majority of APs will be thinking twice about saddling themselves to such a bald-facedly greedy organization. I also highly expect CR to start spotlighting other TTRPGs more often as the paradigms in the TTRPG content creator space begins to shift. They've already done a few specials in other systems.


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Master Han Del of the Web wrote:
Storm Dragon wrote:

Anyone expecting Critical Role to actually swap to 5e is being, uh, VERY optimistic.

Matt Mercer might claim to hate capitalism but he chases that bag as hard as anyone else (if not harder). He's going wherever the money is, and currently the cash flow is coming from Wizards.

Funny how being trapped in a capitalist hellscape forces one to engage with the capitalist hellscape.

Eh, at the point you're a millionaire, any further engagement beyond soaking up your passive income is purely by choice, not necessity. The choice he makes to keep working with Wizards will be just that: a choice.

Mind you, I don't blame him really, I'd take that free payday too. But I've also never claimed to be wholly against the exact kind of dealings he'll be engaging in, the same way he's on the record as being.


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To be fair, another way capitalism can get a person is by making them responsible for the livelihood of dozens of people and the only way to keep those paychecks coming is by acting capitalist.

Honestly we shouldn't wonder why Chelaxians think dealing with the forces of hell is an acceptable way of daily life.


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I do think that's fair, and don't entirely disagree. That's...really all I have to say, honestly. I get your point, and I'm not really here to heap abuse on Matt Mercer over doing something that (as mentioned) I'd probably do in his shoes as well.


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Sometimes there's no easy answer. Sometimes it's just a mess, and the people truly at fault have more power than we can imagine, let alone touch, so it's easier to find slightly smaller, easier-to-swing-at scapegoats who are maybe a little at fault.

Not that it's not good to keep urging Critical Role to switch systems as soon as possible! I hope Kobold Press comes out with something topnotch.

EDIT: I did find the video, and it wasn't quite as relevant as I remembered it being, but it's still a good clip.


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Storm Dragon wrote:
Eh, at the point you're a millionaire, any further engagement beyond soaking up your passive income is purely by choice, not necessity. The choice he makes to keep working with Wizards will be just that: a choice.

Is he officially a millionaire at this point? Damn, I always forget just how much money CR is printing.

Regardless, I'm definitely not out to defend CR. Between the cultivation and maintenance of some very unhealthy parasocial relationships with their audience and the fumbling a bunch of (rich) white nerds keep doing around issues of race, there's plenty to criticize there. It's just worth understanding the difference between the material and legal conditions of Critical Role the company and the material and legal conditions of Matt Mercer the individual.

The man's not even CEO of the company.


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Technically he already was in terms of lifetime earnings BEFORE Critical Role; Mercer was already one of (if not the) highest paid voice actors in the industry.

But after Critical Role he definitely has more "pocket money" lol.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Master Han Del of the Web wrote:
Storm Dragon wrote:
Eh, at the point you're a millionaire, any further engagement beyond soaking up your passive income is purely by choice, not necessity. The choice he makes to keep working with Wizards will be just that: a choice.

Is he officially a millionaire at this point? Damn, I always forget just how much money CR is printing.

Regardless, I'm definitely not out to defend CR. Between the cultivation and maintenance of some very unhealthy parasocial relationships with their audience and the fumbling a bunch of (rich) white nerds keep doing around issues of race, there's plenty to criticize there. It's just worth understanding the difference between the material and legal conditions of Critical Role the company and the material and legal conditions of Matt Mercer the individual.

The man's not even CEO of the company.

Per the Twitch leaks a couple of years back they were one of if not the highest earning streamers on the platform at over 9 million dollars over 1-2 years. That's only counting donations not sponsorships, merch, or anything else.

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

listing to We Chat With TTRPG Journalist Linda Codega About OGL, RPGs, and More! | Roll For Combat

It sounds like Linda Codega will have a CR interview coming out as early as tomorrow but could take a bit long.

Roll For Combat .

This is still running live. You'll have to wait for it to end to see the part about the interview.


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Here's hoping she can actually get something substantial out of them one way or the other. The Solemn JPEG they released as an official statement was such a nothing-burger.


Solemn JPEG?


Storm Dragon wrote:
Solemn JPEG?

Ah, sorry, that refers to the tradition for companies to work around Twitter's character limit by posting an image that's just text usually on a solid color background when they need to address some controversy or other. Usually these are half-hearted apologies for when the company has been caught doing something wrong or thinks they have been. They are just as frequently mealy-mouthed, PR-approved hollow sentiments.

It happens a lot in the video game industry but you see it elsewhere... like the statement released by CR that managed to not make a strong statement one way or the other.


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Ah. I don't use Twitter, so I'm not up on the lingo. I only get subjected to Twitter drama second hand.

Liberty's Edge

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Master Han Del of the Web wrote:
Here's hoping she can actually get something substantial out of them one way or the other. The Solemn JPEG they released as an official statement was such a nothing-burger.

Just a heads up, Linda's pronouns are they/them.


Linda has done fantastic work through all this. I hope the interview is fruitful.


Losonti wrote:
Master Han Del of the Web wrote:
Here's hoping she can actually get something substantial out of them one way or the other. The Solemn JPEG they released as an official statement was such a nothing-burger.
Just a heads up, Linda's pronouns are they/them.

Whoops, sorry. I'd edit but the we're well past the window where the Paizo forum would allow that.

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