So there's undead citizens, quick citizens, and then there's lunch. What is it like for the thralls? Are they indoctrinated to see their lot as some great honor? Is it like a caste thing, with the lowest going on the dinner table? I could see the Carter's Pharasmin connection as being some underground meal wagon and getting folks out whenever possible. This aspect seems really dark and I was just wondering how the game handles it.
LO:IL establishes that while intelligent undead and living Quick are governed and protected by Gebbite law, living thralls have the same protections as mindless undead working in the fields - which is to say, none at all. A note elsewhere in the chapter says that Geb has treaties with other nations to be traded their corpses and prisoners for use as food.
I'm thinking of adding a general item or spell every living person wants in Geb. Let's call it "soul bind". If you have it, you raise as an undead with your memories, will etc. I'm not sure if this is too far off track. But I'm thinking I need to find a way to differentiate between undead zombie thralls and zombie pcs and why not have a item or ritual help with this.
I guess I was wondering more about thrall husbandry for lack of a better term. Are they treated well, livestock would be, but you don't educate or clothe cattle either.
hanez wrote: I'm thinking of adding a general item or spell every living person wants in Geb. Let's call it "soul bind". If you have it, you raise as an undead with your memories, will etc. I'm not sure if this is too far off track. But I'm thinking I need to find a way to differentiate between undead zombie thralls and zombie pcs and why not have a item or ritual help with this. Zombie PCs aren't traditional mindless Zombies; the Archetype makes clear that they're instead Husk Zombies, which anyone in undead-populated Geb should be able to spot the difference between.
I would strongly advise against your soul bind idea. One of the major issues within Geb is that, well, most of the citizenry can never die - every new intelligent undead is a further burden on the state's finite resources. As with most things in Geb, the way to avoiding becoming mindless in death is to either seize power for yourself (seeking out lichdom, for instance), or else throw in with a powerful patron (i.e. someone who will mummify you or turn you into a vampire). The desperation for the Quick to escape an eternity as a zombie laborer is a major element of life in Geb; I think the soul bind undermines this significantly.
keftiu wrote:
Zombie PCs aren't traditional mindless Zombies; the Archetype makes clear that they're instead Husk Zombies, which anyone in undead-populated Geb should be able to spot the difference between.
So lets say I was middle class, and I lived in Geb. Not connected enough to be a vampire, but I wanted if I died to be a Husk Zombie, not a zombie. How would I ensure that? Is there a way? I mean if Zombie PCs found a way, how did they accomplish that? I am thinking that this way, be it a soul bind item, a magical mixture or blessing, is something that the authorities in Geb hate and will want to destroy.
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Anyone else kinda wierded out by the mentions of death farms? Not just because they are so awful, to the point i think it will make my players defect to another country, but because they just don't make sense, humans are terrible livestock.
Take Greydirge. Population 9400, 75% undead. If only half of those undead are meat eaters and eat a pound of human a day, that's 1.75 tons of meat a day. assuming 200 lbs/human, that's 6400 people/year. since humans mature slowly, that means there are at least 6400*18, 115,000 people in these death farms in the countryside, just to feed Greydirge alone.
I think i'm just going to have them farm pigs instead. Ghouls can eat pig right? It just makes more sense than adding in millions of people as chattal to Geb, which kinda flies in the face of the Dead Laws as presented.
Thralls are a different social class from proper Quick in the country, in the same way that Councilor Kemnebi and a mindless zombie working the fields are both undead. It’s not just to feed the ghouls their meat, but the vampires their blood (and the vetalas their emotions) - and not just enough to survive on, but in the quantities necessary for massive Celebrant feasts and to supply the estates of middle and upper-class Dead.
Devastation Bob wrote: I guess I was wondering more about thrall husbandry for lack of a better term. Are they treated well, livestock would be, but you don't educate or clothe cattle either. If you think livestock are treated well, I may have news for you.
Ecgbryt, I recommend not looking too closely at the number of farmers and farmland for living cities either. These numbers never work out.
hanez wrote: keftiu wrote:
Zombie PCs aren't traditional mindless Zombies; the Archetype makes clear that they're instead Husk Zombies, which anyone in undead-populated Geb should be able to spot the difference between.
So lets say I was middle class, and I lived in Geb. Not connected enough to be a vampire, but I wanted if I died to be a Husk Zombie, not a zombie. How would I ensure that? Is there a way? I mean if Zombie PCs found a way, how did they accomplish that? I am thinking that this way, be it a soul bind item, a magical mixture or blessing, is something that the authorities in Geb hate and will want to destroy. The first way that comes immediately to mind is paying a necromancer to get raised as a husk zombie. Given how well undead are treated and that becoming undead is seen as a step up the social ladder for many I'd imagine there are necromancers willing to perform that service, if at a stiff markup, and with prospective clients taking some precautions to ensure they are animated as the kind of undead they want to be, and that the necromancer doesn't bring them to life as a shambler and then pocket the difference in their requested cost.
Another method could be by accident. Perhaps the PC was intended to be a mindless farm-drudge, but something about their reanimation allowed most of their mind to remain intact, which was something they had to keep secret from the corpse tenders until they had a chance to escape and make it on their own.
It's also entirely likely that someone simply clawed their way out of their grave on their own accord. Geb has to be positively oozing with necromantic energies, to say nothing of the kinds of horrible circumstances that lead to the sorts of deaths that create undead in the first place.
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ecgbryt wrote: Anyone else kinda wierded out by the mentions of death farms? Not just because they are so awful, to the point i think it will make my players defect to another country, but because they just don't make sense, humans are terrible livestock.
Take Greydirge. Population 9400, 75% undead. If only half of those undead are meat eaters and eat a pound of human a day, that's 1.75 tons of meat a day. assuming 200 lbs/human, that's 6400 people/year. since humans mature slowly, that means there are at least 6400*18, 115,000 people in these death farms in the countryside, just to feed Greydirge alone.
I think i'm just going to have them farm pigs instead. Ghouls can eat pig right? It just makes more sense than adding in millions of people as chattal to Geb, which kinda flies in the face of the Dead Laws as presented.
Honestly I totally disagree, and am somewhat disappointed the AP doesn't play up the evilness inherent in a nation ruled by Undead.
In my version of Geb, the quick are tolerated as they are seen as necessary but they are largely seens as animals by the undead and not respected. Most quick aspire to escape Gaal, or to have the honor to be risen as undead.
The campaign started with a zombie NPC who works for Berhline, they have need for "the human touch" when interacting with humans. This zombie NPC is always dismissive to the quick, and said to the PCs they would be happier on the humans farms, since many of the livestock are charmed, "you would be happy, in fields, mating with the other animals, it might be years before you were farmed for meat, wouldnt that be better for you? ". As for the efficiency of human meat, it is simple enough to say that many undead prefer human meat to animal meat (this is common in vampire lore.)
I believe in the Impossible Lands book, it specifically mentions that some undead prefer "free range" human meat, so the livestock are charmed to run the fields but not escape, rather then being locked up in pens. My pcs will definitely have a reason to visit this farm.
Of course I am running the AP more free flow, I expect the PCs will eventually consider overthrowing Geb, or escaping to Nex. I dont see how the poisoning plot would be interesting enough to keep PCs going for 20 levels, but perhaps it will. We are starting book 2 soon.
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