Tesseract Tunnel and Unbreaking Wave Containment


Rules Discussion


Hello,

is it possible to open an tesseract tunnel and then use the tunnel with the restrained/immobilized opponents with unbreaking wave containment ?

For example, above the ground as high than your speed if you re flying.

Thanks for your future answer.

Liberty's Edge

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I ... I don't know what you're asking and hear me out, I'm going to research what it is you're saying a bit later when I have a bit more time but I just want to comment at this point, it sounds to me like you're trying to build either an infinite dimensional torture device OR some kind of fantasy Large Hadron Collider that uses live creatures instead of subatomic particles... and I just have to say that is awesome.

I'll be back later once I have HALF a clue what you're actually hoping to get feedback on.


Is it possible for a character to drag the restrained/immobilized opponents along the tunnel and then release the opponents for a falling ?


Thanks Metric System for this morning laughter.
I definitely agree with you, there's room for creating perpetual movement with Tesseract Tunnel, we should explore it.

And to answer OP, I haven't found Unbreaking Wave Containment (as AoN search is down again...). But you can open a Tesseract Tunnel if you are Immobilized and use it immediately as it's a teleport effect. You can't if you are Restrained unless you manage to remove the Somatic Component (which seems hard). Also, you can't use a Tesseract Tunnel while Immobilized as you need a Move Action to do so, you can only teleport at casting time. And it's not technically indicated if you can teleport someone with you. I'd close my eyes for a Familiar, but I'll definitely disallow shenanigans as most (if not all) teleportation effects forbid to take a creature with you.

Edit: I realized you were speaking of the enemy who's Restrained/Immobilized. Then a clear no. There's nothing stating you can force someone to be teleported through the Tunnel.

Horizon Hunters

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

If you cast a normal Tesseract Tunnel, you must Stride through it. Other creatures can also Stride through it. You can not force a creature through it with Forced movement. The tunnel also only works one way.

When you Amp it, you and only you can immediately teleport through it, and the tunnel can be traversed in both directions. After the initial casting, creatures still need to Stride through it.

I assume you mean Unbreaking Wave Barrier? If so, that's forced movement, and you can't force a creature into the tunnel in any way.


No, it's Unbreaking Wave Containment

Horizon Hunters

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Then I'm not quite sure what you want to accomplish by combining those two spells. It's quite explicit that Teserract Tunnel only teleports you, and that anyone else needs to Stride through it, which is quite hard when you're immobilized.


It's not my character that immobilized but the opponents.

Horizon Hunters

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Yes, the immobilized enemy can't move, meaning they can't move through the tunnel. Only the caster can instantly teleport, everyone else has to willingly move through it with some sort of movement, like Striding or Flying.

A common rule of thumb is that you typically can't force teleport or move people into the air to cause damage.


I think it's a little more flexible than that, by RAW anyway:

1) "You create a portal in your current space and then Stride, creating another portal in the space you end your Stride."
>> this seems clear in that the caster has to use a stride initially

2) However... "Until the beginning of your next turn, any creature that enters the first portal can immediately transport itself to the exit portal as part of its move action"
>> this does not specify Stride, it just says "move action". So by RAW a step, crawl, jump, etc should be able to cross the tunnel.
"Any creature" includes the caster, so a Hasted caster or a reaction move (e.g. the amped message cantrip, Marshal feat, or champion's Liberating Step) would also work if they somehow got back to the beginning of the one-way tunnel

3) AMP: "you can choose to immediately teleport to the space at the far end of the tunnel" and "the tunnel can be traversed in both directions" and "duration changes to 1 minute"
>> AMP introduces three major changes: First, it saves an action for the caster (no stride, no move, nothing, just immediate transport the first time. Second, it makes the tunnel bi-directional... note that it says "the tunnel can be traversed", it does not say "the caster can traverse", it is unrestricted. Finally, the duration is 10 rounds.

None of those get around the forced movement general rule that you cannot move someone into a damaging space... but then again there is whirling throw, so the idea of tossing or shoving an enemy through the tunnel, with an endpoint off a cliff edge or in the air, does not sound entirely out of the question.

Plus it's a 5th level focus spell, so I'd be inclined to allow creative use.

Unless I've read this wrong?

Grand Lodge

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BloodandDust wrote:


2) However... "Until the beginning of your next turn, any creature that enters the first portal can immediately transport itself to the exit portal as part of its move action"
Plus it's a 5th level focus spell, so I'd be inclined to allow creative use.

Unless I've read this wrong?

For me, the operative word here is "can":

Until the beginning of your next turn, any creature that enters the first portal can immediately transport itself to the exit portal as part of its move action

This is a choice made by the creature that entered the portal, not the caster of the portal.


Like Jared says, if the creature doesn't want to be teleported, it isn't.

But I agree that the spell is extremely flexible if you have characters with Move reactions.


I agree, *can* is the operative word, and there is potential for shenanigans.

That said: if a creature is immobilized and being carried, or being propelled (e.g. whirling throw) they would not be the one making the decision (also, "can" goes to ability, not to permission, which would be "may"), the creature carrying/moving them would be.

There are some obvious challenges of course; first you have to have an enemy/ally in a condition that enables them to be reasonably moved/carried/thrown. However, Tesseract Tunnel does not have the language restricting 'passengers', unlike Teleport (and DD), nor does it have the Forced Movement callout.

It would need a squinty eye, so not suggesting it's a slam dunk, but RAW here is less restrictive that for DD and Teleport.

Balance-wise, it is a lot shorter range (one stride, vs 120' up to miles/planetary) and can't be gained via dedications, so abuse opportunities feel somewhat limited.

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