Race builder guidance for a high fantasy gestalt campaign


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


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I Have a general overall template of a class build provided by Ryze Kuja for an arcanist/slayer posted down below for a high fantasy campaign involving gestalt characters and a 25RP race builder in which all FCB/Racial bonuses are available, plus one starting feat.

It gives us quite a bit of flexibility but its a matter of figuring out of all things what I want to have in a character. I've looked over the list of racial traits and picked a bit of things I either am interested or like but I wouldn't mind optimizing as well, to find a happy medium.

I'd welcome suggestions of all kinds, either for the race building or simply for other aspects. The build below does list a starting point with point buy but as noted, that will probably be swapped for a custom race. Thank you for your time.

1 Human 25 pt buy

Str 7
Dex 16
Con 10
Int 20
Wis 10
Cha 12

Slayer: Sniper Archetype
Arcanist: School Savant (Evocation)

Human Alt Racial: Focused Study: Free Skill Focus at levels 1, 8, and 16

Pick 2 of these Traits, or take a Drawback and choose all 3.
Trait (regional): Spell Duel Prodigy (+2 Dispel checks)
Trait (combat): Reactionary (+2 Initiative)
Trait (magic): Desperate Resolve (+1 to all Conc checks, +4 Conc checks while grappled, pinned, violent weather, or entangled)

1 Feat: Point Blank Shot
Skill Focus (Stealth)

2 Slayer Talent: Precise Shot

3 Feat: Rapid Shot

4 Slayer Talent: Deadly Range

5 Feat: Overwatch Style
Exploit: Counterspell

6 Slayer Talent: Combat Trick (Overwatch Tactician)
6/6 Slayer Talent: Improved Precise Shot

7 Feat: Heighten Spell

8 Slayer Talent: Fast Stealth,
Skill Focus (Spellcraft)

9 Feat: Preferred Spell (Fireball),
Exploit: Quick Study

10 Slayer Talent: Feat (Quicken Spell)

11 Feat: Overwatch Vortex,
Exploit: Greater Counterspell

12 Slayer Talent: Feat (Disruptive Spell),
6/6 Slayer Talent: Feat (Extra Arcane Exploit: Arcane Discovery(Creative Destruction))

13 Feat: Deadly Aim,
Exploit: Counter Drain

14 Slayer Talent: Feat (Spell Focus- Evocation)

15 Feat: Spell Perfection (Fireball),
Exploit: Potent Magic

16 Slayer Talent: Feat (Spell Penetration),
Skill Focus (Knowledge Arcana)

17 Feat: Dispel Focus,
Exploit: Dimensional Slide

18 Slayer Talent: Feat (Greater Dispel Focus),

19 Feat: Greater Spell Focus (Evocation),
Exploit: Metamixing

20 Slayer Talent: Feat (Greater Spell Penetration)


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So, I see a lot of feats/traits here that IMO are garbage, however, I am curious why you didn't pick up Manyshot?


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I think the notion was I'd be using the bow defensively using overwatch style but there probably will be times the opposite happens. Does manyshot work with overwatch style?


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What level are you starting at? Early level, an archer could get a lot of benefit out of flight. Later level, you can do better with your magic.


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Do you have any limits in your race builder? Are you using a standard, advanced, or monstrous limit of options?

The differences in those lists can wildly change what your strongest options are.


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NikoroKumitsero wrote:
I think the notion was I'd be using the bow defensively using overwatch style but there probably will be times the opposite happens. Does manyshot work with overwatch style?

I don't think it does, but I don't think rapid shot does either (both require a full round attack). A defensive build with overwatch seems likes a less optimal build than making full round attacks. Considering an arcanist can cast greater invisibility, I would try for as many shots per round as possible, while being invisible and getting the slayer sneak attack damage.

I mean, at 11th level you're giving up a Full round attack, to gain 4 attacks _IF_ our conditions are met. that same 11th level slayer, would have 3 normal attacks, plus rapid shot any many shot for 2 more arrows, plus a haste (since you can cast that too), so 6 arrow instead of 4 or less.


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The "point" of this build seems to be outright spell denial. Personally, I'm not sure if that's worth it, but that's clearly what's going on here.

My problem is that this is far too much focus on such a niche activity. I feel it'd be better to use the arcanist for all the anti-spell activities and use the slayer for the average combat's damage purposes.

A denial build like this also has a problem with GM reaction to it. Your average GM will either stop throwing casters at you or start making sure your denial doesn't work well against the casters you do face.


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Melkiador wrote:

Do you have any limits in your race builder? Are you using a standard, advanced, or monstrous limit of options?

The differences in those lists can wildly change what your strongest options are.

Starting with monstrous, 25RP. Bunch of vat grown player characters. Not sure what other limits there might be as its been pretty hands off.


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Melkiador wrote:
What level are you starting at? Early level, an archer could get a lot of benefit out of flight. Later level, you can do better with your magic.

Starting at level 3.


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Melkiador wrote:

The "point" of this build seems to be outright spell denial. Personally, I'm not sure if that's worth it, but that's clearly what's going on here.

My problem is that this is far too much focus on such a niche activity. I feel it'd be better to use the arcanist for all the anti-spell activities and use the slayer for the average combat's damage purposes.

A denial build like this also has a problem with GM reaction to it. Your average GM will either stop throwing casters at you or start making sure your denial doesn't work well against the casters you do face.

GM is one I've been playing with for years, our group is all on pretty good terms. I'm under the understanding its a little niche and that it may not be a one size fits all situation but I don't think the GM intends to outright deny any of us, usually they make it so we all have chances to shine. I suppose that makes it seem like we can come in with a half baked crappy build and still get mileage as the GM will play to us.


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Wow. Monstrous... That gives us some very desirable options. I would try to work all of these in:

Fast Healing (6 RP): Prerequisites: None; Benefit: Members of this race regain 1 hit point each round. Except for where noted here, fast healing is just like natural healing. Fast healing does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation, nor does it allow a creature to regrow lost body parts. Fast healing continues to function (even at negative hit points) until a member of this race dies, at which point the effects of fast healing immediately end. Special: This trait can be taken multiple times. Each time fast healing is taken, its cost increases by 1 RP.

Flight (4 RP): Prerequisites: None; Benefit: Members of this race have a fly speed of 30 feet with clumsy maneuverability. Special: This trait can be taken more than once. For each additional 2 RP spent, the race's fly speed increases by +10 feet, and the maneuverability improves by one step.

See in Darkness (4 RP): Prerequisites: None; Benefit: Members of this race can see perfectly in darkness of any kind, including that created by spells such as deeper darkness.

Blindsense 30 Feet (4 RP): Prerequisites: None; Benefit: Using nonvisual senses such as acute smell or hearing, members of this race notice things they cannot see. Members of this race usually do not need to make Perception checks to pinpoint the location of a creature within 30 feet, provided they have line of effect to that creature. A creature that members of this race cannot see still has total concealment against individuals with blindsense, and members of this race still have the normal miss chance when attacking creatures that have concealment. Visibility still affects the movement of members of this race. Members of this race are still denied their Dexterity bonus to AC against attacks from creatures they cannot see.
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Blindsense is a bit niche if you already have See in Darkness. It's good for things like invisibility, but you could just cast detect spells for that if you want.

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Spell-Like Ability, At-Will (Variable, see Special): Prerequisites: None; Benefit: Choose a 3rd-level or lower spell that does not attack a creature or deal damage. Members of this race can use this spell as an at-will spell-like ability. The caster level of the spell is equal to the user's character level. Special: This trait costs as many RP as twice the level of spell chosen (minimum 2). Up to five spells can be chosen when you take this trait. Each time you take an additional spell, adjust the RP cost of this trait appropriately.
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Too many non-offensive spells that stay useful for a long time. Haste. Mirror Image. Or just do something weird like spam Expeditious Construction to go Minecraft and make a building in a few minutes.


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Melkiador wrote:

Wow. Monstrous... That gives us some very desirable options. I would try to work all of these in:

Fast Healing (6 RP): Prerequisites: None; Benefit: Members of this race regain 1 hit point each round. Except for where noted here, fast healing is just like natural healing. Fast healing does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation, nor does it allow a creature to regrow lost body parts. Fast healing continues to function (even at negative hit points) until a member of this race dies, at which point the effects of fast healing immediately end. Special: This trait can be taken multiple times. Each time fast healing is taken, its cost increases by 1 RP.

Flight (4 RP): Prerequisites: None; Benefit: Members of this race have a fly speed of 30 feet with clumsy maneuverability. Special: This trait can be taken more than once. For each additional 2 RP spent, the race's fly speed increases by +10 feet, and the maneuverability improves by one step.

See in Darkness (4 RP): Prerequisites: None; Benefit: Members of this race can see perfectly in darkness of any kind, including that created by spells such as deeper darkness.

Blindsense 30 Feet (4 RP): Prerequisites: None; Benefit: Using nonvisual senses such as acute smell or hearing, members of this race notice things they cannot see. Members of this race usually do not need to make Perception checks to pinpoint the location of a creature within 30 feet, provided they have line of effect to that creature. A creature that members of this race cannot see still has total concealment against individuals with blindsense, and members of this race still have the normal miss chance when attacking creatures that have concealment. Visibility still affects the movement of members of this race. Members of this race are still denied their Dexterity bonus to AC against attacks from creatures they cannot see.
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Blindsense is a bit niche if you already have See in Darkness. It's good for things like invisibility, but you could...

I'm curious, cause I had tried to wrap my head around the at will spell ability. So has to be 3rd level or lower, whatever spell you pick, multiply the level by 2 to get the RP cost? You can choose up to 5 spells for this one ability, but each time it adds the cost?


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I had also looked at this list of things I liked prior to posting.. use to be more but I had to cut down on it. I can definitely see merits in the traits listed by Melkiador and TxSam88.

RP
4 Advanced Attributes
1 Linguist
4 Flexible Bonus Feat
3 Greater Spell Resistance
4 Lucky, Greater
2 Static Bonus Feat
2 Quick Reactions
3 Deep Magic
2 Enclave Protector
3 Fleet-Footed
3 Swift as Shadows
4 See in Darkness

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