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I'm planning a campaign set in Golarion's past (early deays of the Age of Enthronement, circa 40 years after Aroden raised the Starstone and founded Absalom), and I'd like to make the world feel more like antiquity, in opposition to medieval-style fantasy most of Pathfinder seems to be designed for. Any ideas?
To highlight the most important features of that era, as given by the offical history of Golarion:
The elves have not yet returned from Sovyrian (though desert elvest, jungle elves and others exist) and the dwarven empire of Tar Taargadth is still powerful. Aroden is a living god and still personally present on Golarion, haven't moved to Axis yet. Taldor just started its expansion with its First Army of Exploration. Empire of Kelesh reached the border of Taldor just 80 years ago, and there were some wars between Qadira and Taldor, but no century-log conflict yet. Osirion is past its prime, and was unable to keep the control over the lands of (future) Thuvia and Rahadoum. Nex and Geb are both alive at that time and actively fighting each other.
My ideas so far:
Of course, I need to exclude all more modern items and classes (like gunslinger). Alchemy will be more like herbalism and witchraft than science (with the exception of Thuvia, who I imagine would have rather scientific approach to alchemy, even in that age). There would be fewer impresive ruins - pretty much only those truly ancient, from before Earthfall, but those would be better preserved and less explored. There would be no Common language, as there was no empire of Taldor yet. There would be few poeple travelling great distances, and the cultural exchange between regions would be limited. The knowledge of the world beside the borders of one's own country would be very limited. There would be many areas where humans are not the dominant species. There would be many nations (hhuman or non-human) that have no writing system. There would be no one pantheon worshipped all across the Avistan, but rather many different pantheons worshipped by different cultures; some deities, like Pharasma may be universally known, but even they may be called, imagined and worshipped in many ways.
Not too sure when the specifics of the Starstone ascension for Iomedae, Cayden, and Norgorber happens but I've got me a feelin' that those 3 and their associates wasn't around back then. ;)
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- Increased prominence of Lamashtu, Erastil, and Gozreh- deities that lose relevance to people the more established and widespread cities are.
- It's a thousand years until anyone else passes the starstone's test, so right now it's kinda just "Aroden's divine death-rock".
- I'd probably have thaumaturges making up a big part of Aroden's cult, using relics that have been blessed by him- a chalice implement is just any cup that he's drunk from, a bell implement any instrument he's heard, etc. I think that helps play up that this is genuinely a god living among mortals.
- One country beyond what you mentioned is probably known well outside it's borders. Nidal is the example of what a god's attention looks like, eternally locked in the Age of Darkness they bargained to survive. It's a thousand years older than any empire.
- I think you're wrong about nations without writing systems, though. Post-apocalyptic civilization has been going strong for 3,500 years. As much as I love me some bronze age fantasy, I think it'd be late Age of Anguish/early Age of Destiny for that. (Obviously, you can mess around with things how you like for your home game.)
- Mixed information about Aroden. He's been around for a long time, being immortal. So plenty people probably see it as another powerful mage pretending to be a god. Forty years in, though, that opinion is probably getting harder to support as more priests of him show divine power.
- Prophecy still works, even if it's not something that touches everyday life. Nations probably have entire branches to study omens obsessively. That doesn't mean there aren't fraudsters and misinterpretations, though, so relying too heavily on it is a fast way to get fleeced or be critically unprepared for an ironic twist.
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Not too sure when the specifics of the Starstone ascension for Iomedae, Cayden, and Norgorber happens but I've got me a feelin' that those 3 and their associates wasn't around back then. ;)
Of course. And I don't think that Irori is around as well, at least not in the Inner Sea Region.
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I would also raise Jaidi to be one of your primary gods - she got much of the Inner Sea back on its feet, and it's a shame that she's treated as "Erastil's forgotten wife" in modern Golarion. Desna, Gozreh, Nethys, Pharasma and Sarenrae are all as important as ever, and Aroden is relatively-recently ascended. You've also got a number of now-dead Demon Lords to play with.
I'd push back on a lack of ancient ruins - Sekmin, Ghol-Gan, Azlanti, Jistkan, and Tekritanin sites are all already hundreds or thousands of years fallen here, which gives you plenty to dig around for.
Osirion's not exactly past its prime, considering it isn't conquered for another 1500 years.
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- Increased prominence of Lamashtu, Erastil, and Gozreh- deities that lose relevance to people the more established and widespread cities are.
Yes, and with this line of thinking some deities that are considered minor in Age of Lost Omes could be major in the past. I'm thinking aboult elevating the prominence of Jaidi (wife or Erastil, goddess of sun and agriculture), the Eldest, and Apsu.
- I'd probably have thaumaturges making up a big part of Aroden's cult, using relics that have been blessed by him- a chalice implement is just any cup that he's drunk from, a bell implement any instrument he's heard, etc. I think that helps play up that this is genuinely a god living among mortals.
Nice idea, definitely there would be many "rellics" like that, some real, and some fake.
- One country beyond what you mentioned is probably known well outside it's borders. Nidal is the example of what a god's attention looks like, eternally locked in the Age of Darkness they bargained to survive. It's a thousand years older than any empire.
Wasn't Nidal isolationist through most of its history, as Zon-Kuthon doesn't like his people leave its borders?. But yeah, there may be legends about the Realm of Darkness far to the weest (fro Taldor perspective).
The Land of Linnorm Kings would also already exist at this point for several centuries. While relatively young nation it may be better known that Nidal, considering that its people are known for their voyages.- I think you're wrong about nations without writing systems, though. Post-apocalyptic civilization has been going strong for 3,500 years. As much as I love me some bronze age fantasy, I think it'd be late Age of Anguish/early Age of Destiny for that. (Obviously, you can mess around with things how you like for your home game.)
I try to draw parallels to real history, and I think that Taldor at this point could be compared to Roman Republic or early Roman Empire, with general Porthomos (the leader of Great Army of Exploration) being compared to people like Scipio Africanus or Julius Caesar. As I understand real history, at that time many nations (especially in Europe) didn't have their own writing systems yet.
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I would also raise Jaidi to be one of your primary gods - she got much of the Inner Sea back on its feet, and it's a shame that she's treated as "Erastil's forgotten wife" in modern Golarion. Desna, Gozreh, Nethys, Pharasma and Sarenrae are all as important as ever, and Aroden is relatively-recently ascended. You've also got a number of now-dead Demon Lords to play with.
Yes, I plan to elevate Jaidi and some other minor gods, partly to fulfill the roles that would be left empty without gods like Iomedae or Norgorber. I also think that religions would be more regional, for example while Nethys would be well known and widely worshipped in Garund, it wouldn't be so in Avistan, where the regional god of magic may be one of the Eldest, Asmodeus, Irez, or Aroden himself.
I'd push back on a lack of ancient ruins - Sekmin, Ghol-Gan, Azlanti, Jistkan, and Tekritanin sites are all already hundreds or thousands of years fallen here, which gives you plenty to dig around for.
True, they would be around in certain areas, I was too much thinking about the area around the starting point of the campaign around Taldor. In this area there could be some ancient Azlanti ruins, and there would be elven ruins in Kyonin. The dwarven empire of Tar-Taargadth is still strong, so I don't think there would e many abandoned dwarven ruins.
Osirion's not exactly past its prime, considering it isn't conquered for another 1500 years.
It's still alive, and it will be for some time, but at its peak of power it controlled all northern Garund. At the beginning of Age of Enthronement it controls only the area similar to modern Osirion.
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I try to draw parallels to real history, and I think that Taldor at this point could be compared to Roman Republic or early Roman Empire, with general Porthomos (the leader of Great Army of Exploration) being compared to people like Scipio Africanus or Julius Caesar. As I understand real history, at that time many nations (especially in Europe) didn't have their own writing systems yet.
I was definitely thinking the same time period, and I think I was just blurring time periods and presuming the Romans were overzealous in labeling things as "not writing". But looking into when we actually find runes showing up in places, I think you're correct.
I think there are two particularly big differences that would push towards literacy more than our world.
- Unlike late BCE Europe, this wouldn't be regions that had never had civilizations with writing. Sure, there was an apocalypse dropped on the region, but there's still some continuity of people, and if you come across writing on ruins and the like, it's a lot easier to have a go at writing again.
- You've got a lot more external influence. A lot of the lawful deities (Abadar and Asmodeus especially) and extraplanar entities are probably keen on having writing spread.
Weaker point, but there's also a bit more incentive for writing to catch on. Instead of it just being a neat trick for governments to do taxes more easily, it's also very handy for arcane magic.
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Another thing to realize is that most fantasy settings go with "There is about 5 000 years of written history human history" because they ape the real life history progression :p (forgotten realms and eberron both have first mention of human civilization about 5000 years before the current year) For comparison, modern humans have existed for about 200 000 years and oldest non recorded known civilization is about 6000 years old.
That isn't the case with Golarion. Besides the obvious 10 000 year ago earthfall happening thing we don't know exact time scale of Azlant, but they likely existed for multiple thousand years at least.
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Another thing to realize is that most fantasy settings go with "There is about 5 000 years of written history human history" because they ape the real life history progression :p (forgotten realms and eberron both have first mention of human civilization about 5000 years before the current year) For comparison, modern humans have existed for about 200 000 years and oldest non recorded known civilization is about 6000 years old.
That isn't the case with Golarion. Besides the obvious 10 000 year ago earthfall happening thing we don't know exact time scale of Azlant, but they likely existed for multiple thousand years at least.
Even with such long past, the Earthfall did wipe out a lot, and there are few reliable sources on that past.
For comparison, Classical Greeks knew that there existed a civilization before them - the Mycenaeans - but they've knew little about it, and only the names of some places remained in epics like Illiad. They thought that the walls of Mycenae were built by cyclopses.
Golarion is in better situation, as they have at least one direct link with that age - Aroden. I imagine Aroden told many stories about Ancient Azlant (probably colorizing them to make himself look the best, but whatever), and those stories could spread as legends and tales among Taldan populace, inspiring literature, music, theatre, and visual art.
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Nah main thing to note is that even with earthfall wiping out pre earthfall recorded history, there is still much longer period of recorded history than even in real life. So in case of 40 after absalom reckoning, its still about 6000 years of history having passed (even if we assume at least one thousand years was about post apocalyptic "civilization fell to hunter gathering" its still long time)
This was mostly regarding things like development of cultural ideas, literacy, technology or etc.