My thoughts on all the classes i've experimented with.

[Malik Gyan Daumantas]

This is something ive kind of wanted to do for a while and kind of put down my thoughts on the classes I've messed with and how i feel about them. Thought i'd be fun. I'll be going over them in order btw

Alchemist: The alchemist has a unique trait in that it can easily be built for whatever role you want it to be.
Medium to long-range nuker? Gunchemist
Healer/Support? Chirurgeon
Rouge/Scout Type? Crypt Breaker
Assassin Type? Eldritch Poisoner
Melee Bruiser? Grenadier. Wait why would you use grenadier for a melee attacker? Don't people usually run that with a bow and arrow? True. Until you remember concentrated splash is a thing and the fact that the extra damage applies to critical hits. In any case, i find this class fun because it can be built for whatever role is needed making it highly adaptable.

Arcanist: Of all the 9th-level casters in the game, the arcanist is one of only 2 classes I'd ever play willingly(Not counting archetypes of certain classes). This is because it has a lot of options going for it, including free metamagics, flexibility with spell use, and the ability to swap them on the fly giving it a lot of options...so much so that the wizard flat-out stole exploits for itself...(I'm still upset about that). Regardless it still has things that allow it to stand on its own. Most notably the occultist which is basically a 9th-level caster with the summoners summoning feature albeit at a higher cost. But with consume spells, this shouldn't be an issue. Ultimately I prefer the arcanist over the wizard as it has a lot of personality. Side note the arcanist can arguably be a better witch than the witch. (We'll talk about that later)

Bard: I'll be honest the standard bard always came off as "mid" to me, really only good if you're in a party of mostly beat sticks. This is why I tend to build my bards as more roguish types rather then full on supports...not much more to say here except sound striker is fun. First world Mistral, Archeologist, Negotiator and Filidh all spoke to me.

Brawler: I REALLY downplayed the brawler for the longest time and only recently came to appreciate how flexible and adaptable martial flexibility is if you know how to use it. This gives you options to so many options at any given time, it's arguably able to compete with 4th level casters which is no small feat. I like this I really do, to the point where I'd honestly say brawlers are better then unchained monks(Spoiler, It's kinda meh)

Bloodrager: Bloodrager is a barbarian that is self-sufficient and lacks pounce, it's very simplistic so again not much to say. That said I do REALLY like it despite its very straightforward approach. I will say that I actively avoid primalist, just because I don't want barbarians to be TOTALLY obsolete. Go crossblooded with verdant/whatever other bloodline you want with spell eater to never die.

Cleric: The cleric by itself is as barebones as you can get, to the point where personally I would never play a cleric that I didn't prestige into the evangelist prestige class and no I don't care that I lose a spell level for it. In my opinion, a class should be good in spite of having 9th-level spells not because of it. You should make use of your 3/4ths hit die but ultimately focus on your casting and supportive abilities through archtypes like the herald caller, evangelist and Theologian, Combat cleric is best suited for...someone else.

Druid: I hear people say the druid is the single strongest class in the game and honestly I can see why. Like it says a lot when you have to actively nerf a class and it still feels strong as all get out. I had to go nature fang meaning I got rid of wild shape and a bunch of other nature stuff and put in a 1-level dip in mammoth rider which hampered my spellcasting and it was still ridiculously strong because by the time I got to level 10 I could get my animal companion to colossal size with ease turning it into a full-on kaiju. Druid is strong, Nuff said.

Fighter: Oh fighter, where do I even begin with you? I mean so much of the fighter just feels...basic and doesn't really stand out that much. The fact that there are so many classes in the game that gets the fighter's weapon training and bonus feats kind of shows this. Really of all the archetypes, the only one that really stood out to me was the child of A&A and even that took me well over a year before I finally figured out 2 builds that make it stand on its own. There's also one final nail in the coffin that just flat-out makes the fighter pointless.

Inquisitor:Only 2 archtypes really stood out for me. First is the sacred huntsmaster which is the reason I'm skipping the hunter because this thing is basically hunter with bane and a better spell list, that should tell you everything. Next is the relic hunter which while not the "Strongest" has a lot of cool and unique tricks you can pull which I found kind of cute.

Magus: I've always been a sucker for spellsword types, which is why I absolutely love the magus, its good at one thing but it can do that one thing VERY well which is blowing people up and looking good while doing it, and due to it being intelligence based it can do a variety of secondary roles adequately as well such as respectable knowledge checks and even being an intelligence-based face. There are so many other classes i like, but magus will always be my favorite.

Oracle: Possibly the only other 9th-level caster I'd play by choice. The oracle is very different from the cleric in that they are blatantly specialized but are VERY good at that specialization as they are the only class in the game I know of that can focus almost entirely on healing and still be relevant due to the life mystery.
Whimsy Mystery that turns you into a living fey almost, oh and shadow mystery just speaks for itself, eventually making you so good at shadow spells they might as well be the real thing.

Paladin: I'll be frank, I don't like the paladin. I don't like how it locks you into a certain alignment and I don't like how basic it is combat-wise. The paladin and by extension the anti-paladin remind me of Jedi and sith respectively. Extreme in their views and borderline self-destructive because of it. It's also kind of overshadowed by other class.

Ranger: I know a lot of people like to bash the ranger saying that the slayer is better. But I still think there are a few archetypes that make it stand out. The ones I like are the guide, the wild hunter, and the sable company marine. One gives you good base damage and fundamentally a once-per-day pounce, the next one basically turns you into a full BAB hunter which is nice and the last one gives you a free hippogriff animal companion. If you can't figure out how to make use of that, idk what to tell you.

Eldritch Scoundrel Rogue: Yes I'm calling this one out specifically as IMO this is the only rogue archetype of note. Having access to 6th-level wizard spells, being able to use said spells to power up various ninja tricks along with being intelligence based and all the other utility that comes with being a rogue. You have a character that has an answer to ANY situation and can always fill a role even if they aren't the best at it.

Skald: The only archetype of this one I liked is the bacchanal skald. I don't know why but the idea of being a drunken tank just appeals to me.

Sorcerer: Is.....Ok. Really I'd only run this if you'd specifically benefit from playing as a sorcerer such as if you were running a kobold.

Summoner: I know a lot of people prefer to only use the summon monster feature but personally I always found it more interesting to focus on the eidolon part of the summoner making your own personalized battle buddy or guardian

Vigilante(6th level caster variants): This plays much like the others but has more of an incognito feel to it. Only the zealot and warlock really stood out but they are still both very good regardless Take what i said about the Eldritch scoundrel and the relic hunter respectively and you can apply that to here except zealot can potentially do a lot more damage and warlock is more combat capable.

Warpriest: Remember when I said a class overshadowed the paladin, was better for being a combat cleric than the cleric and made the fighter borderline obsolete? Here's the culprit right here, the bane of SO many people in terms of classes. And I absolutely love it. Ok, bear with me here. Fighter feats, swift action buffs(Angelic ascent being my personal favorite. Swift action fly just sounds awesome), and the ability to build however you please. I've made builds that were frankly impossible on any other 6th-level caster or even 4th level ones. I love this thing it's tied with the magus as my favorite class in the game....too bad it has booty for skill points and out of combat utility outside its spells.

Witch: Unlettered Arcanist makes a better witch then the witch, and I'm not even kidding cause exploits are objectively better than hexes...can't wait for someone to try and tell me otherwise.

Wizard: This one is kind of a personal gripe for me. As my issue isn't with the wizard per se, but rather how many people seem to go gaga over it and how it for some reason seems to love stealing class features from other classes...why?

[OmniMage]

I'm not much for exploiter wizard. They get exploits about half as fast as the arcanist. If you wanted exploits, you probably should have gone arcanist. Near as I can tell, as an exploiter wizard, you get half the exploits and keep wizard bonus feats.

I prefer the spell sage wizard archetype cause its one of the few builds that can access nearly all the spells in the game (bard, cleric, druid, and wizard). Though I think it could have been made better. I don't think you get the ability to use scrolls, wands, or staves for other class spells without use magic device. You merely gain the ability to spontaneously use 2 spell slots, a few times a day, into other class spells as you cast them in a round about way. You can't prepare other class spells; only convert your spells into them as you cast them.

To put it in another way, its one of the few classes that feels like you are a master of all magic.

[Melkiador]

Witch hexes can be game ruiningly overpowered. Sleep hex can end so many encounters and the class is so intelligence focused that there’s no reason not to have a killer save DC for it.

Hexes mean you should always have something powerful to do every round. My problem with witch is that it’s just so binary. You either decided the entire fight with a few hexes or they saved or were immune so you were mostly support for the encounter.

Inquisitor is just good to great at everything. Give it a couple rounds to start Bane and Judement and you have a combat monster that can perform amongst the best martials in the game. And out of combat it has a lot of great skills and a top tier intimidate. And it even has a decent modified spell list. Heck, it even has an archetype to be a better summoner than the default summoner. That’s just crazy.

Btw, you left out monk.

[Malik Gyan Daumantas]

Melkiador wrote:

Witch hexes can be game ruiningly overpowered. Sleep hex can end so many encounters and the class is so intelligence focused that there’s no reason not to have a killer save DC for it.

Hexes mean you should always have something powerful to do every round. My problem with witch is that it’s just so binary. You either decided the entire fight with a few hexes or they saved or were immune so you were mostly support for the encounter.

Inquisitor is just good to great at everything. Give it a couple rounds to start Bane and Judement and you have a combat monster that can perform amongst the best martials in the game. And out of combat it has a lot of great skills and a top tier intimidate. And it even has a decent modified spell list. Heck, it even has an archetype to be a better summoner than the default summoner. That’s just crazy.

Btw, you left out monk.

I did say only classes I experimented with, and even then i honestly think brawler is objectively better then the monk, unchained or otherwise.

[Mightypion]

Skalds arent tanks imho, the most "effective ones" are more offensive focused bards.

Spell warrior in particular can be relatively impactfull dpr, and it ups the DPR of the entire party quite sizeably.

Something that is pretty fun is a Brawler or Mutagenic Mauler 2 Dip with Spell warrior.
Brawlers can flurry with anything from the close weapon group, which includes some D10 options like the Scizore, you can flurry with these, without actually using TWFing. Eventually you switch to Cestus because of close weapon mastery, but hitting twice with a D10 weapon and adding your full strength is not joke, and you can start heavily enchanting that cestus in combat pretty quickly.

[Malik Gyan Daumantas]

Mightypion wrote:

Skalds arent tanks imho, the most "effective ones" are more offensive focused bards.

Spell warrior in particular can be relatively impactfull dpr, and it ups the DPR of the entire party quite sizeably.

Something that is pretty fun is a Brawler or Mutagenic Mauler 2 Dip with Spell warrior.
Brawlers can flurry with anything from the close weapon group, which includes some D10 options like the Scizore, you can flurry with these, without actually using TWFing. Eventually you switch to Cestus because of close weapon mastery, but hitting twice with a D10 weapon and adding your full strength is not joke, and you can start heavily enchanting that cestus in combat pretty quickly.

My only issue with the spell warrior is that just about everything it can do can be replicated by a well made magus.

[Java Man]

Malik Gyan Daumantas wrote:

Mightypion wrote:

Skalds arent tanks imho, the most "effective ones" are more offensive focused bards.

Spell warrior in particular can be relatively impactfull dpr, and it ups the DPR of the entire party quite sizeably.

Something that is pretty fun is a Brawler or Mutagenic Mauler 2 Dip with Spell warrior.
Brawlers can flurry with anything from the close weapon group, which includes some D10 options like the Scizore, you can flurry with these, without actually using TWFing. Eventually you switch to Cestus because of close weapon mastery, but hitting twice with a D10 weapon and adding your full strength is not joke, and you can start heavily enchanting that cestus in combat pretty quickly.

My only issue with the spell warrior is that just about everything it can do can be replicated by a well made magus.

I would like to see your magus build that makes all of the party's weapons keen while granting every party member pounce.

[Malik Gyan Daumantas]

Java Man wrote:

Malik Gyan Daumantas wrote:

Mightypion wrote:

Skalds arent tanks imho, the most "effective ones" are more offensive focused bards.

Spell warrior in particular can be relatively impactfull dpr, and it ups the DPR of the entire party quite sizeably.

Something that is pretty fun is a Brawler or Mutagenic Mauler 2 Dip with Spell warrior.
Brawlers can flurry with anything from the close weapon group, which includes some D10 options like the Scizore, you can flurry with these, without actually using TWFing. Eventually you switch to Cestus because of close weapon mastery, but hitting twice with a D10 weapon and adding your full strength is not joke, and you can start heavily enchanting that cestus in combat pretty quickly.

My only issue with the spell warrior is that just about everything it can do can be replicated by a well made magus.

I would like to see your magus build that makes all of the party's weapons keen while granting every party member pounce.

Oh right still got rage powers.

[MrCharisma]

Thanks for the list. I don't agree with everything but I appreciate the insight.

I recommend you give the Occultist a go. It has a lot of the things you love about the Alchemist, Magus and Warpriest all in 1 package. The only downside to the Occultist is that you'll have to prioritize your standard-action buffs, which is why I recommend a reach weapon.

Also although they really can be built in any way you choose, any Occultist who actually wants to use weapons needs a Transmutation Implement, and there's not really a way around that (though contrary to popular opinion you really don't need the Trappings of the Warrior panoply - it's good, but it's not necessary).

Also one problem I have with the Brawler is that you can get a lot of it's schtick with a 1 level dip. I'm playing a Bloodrager with a Brawler dip, and it's amazing. I wonder how you'd feel about UC-Monk with a 1 level dip in Brawler?

[Matthew Morris]

Interesting post. Obviously I'm a bardoholic and glad to see another archeologist fan. I had great fun with my archerolgist.

I personally was a fan of the vigilante and all its archtypes. IF you use Occult Rituals to allow to 7-9th level spells (or 8-9th level spells if you use Legendary Games Vigilante suppliments) you could run a game with just the vigilante class.

[Malik Gyan Daumantas]

MrCharisma wrote:

Thanks for the list. I don't agree with everything but I appreciate the insight.

I recommend you give the Occultist a go. It has a lot of the things you love about the Alchemist, Magus and Warpriest all in 1 package. The only downside to the Occultist is that you'll have to prioritize your standard-action buffs, which is why I recommend a reach weapon.

Also although they really can be built in any way you choose, any Occultist who actually wants to use weapons needs a Transmutation Implement, and there's not really a way around that (though contrary to popular opinion you really don't need the Trappings of the Warrior panoply - it's good, but it's not necessary).

Also one problem I have with the Brawler is that you can get a lot of it's schtick with a 1 level dip. I'm playing a Bloodrager with a Brawler dip, and it's amazing. I wonder how you'd feel about UC-Monk with a 1 level dip in Brawler?

That could work but IMO you wouldn't get the same millage as you would going straight brawler.