They don't even by skill items because they stopped bothering to use skills since we have a fighter with a maul who often drops people on crits prone without having to spend actions to do it or take the MAP.This is a phenomenon I've observed in some of the games I'm in as well. In games where there is a fighter with a maul, combat maneuvers are rarely used. In the games where there isn't a fighter, or at least one with a big hammer, combat maneuvers are much more common.
Fighter with a maul is nasty. This one is a cleric MC as well who casts heroism/bless to further boost their attack roll most battles. He crits a lot.
Well, that's the fighter purpose.
Hammer/flail builds were already over the top, and with the crushing rune they made the even more powerful.
We are currently playing with s fighter with champ dedication:
- warhammer + light hammer ( double slice)
- champion reaction
- combat reflexes
- greater crushing runes and greater fearsome runes.
- disruptive stanceWhen they crit, the enemy is prone, clumsy 2, enfeebled 2, frightened 2.
It's a huge damage boost for the whole party, making things way easier.
Apart from that,to me maneuvers alone feel just bad ( eventually, assurance can be worth it sometimes, but having to invest either in the athletics skill and one skill feat is no the best deal) because an attack tend to always be better.
Its a nice way to do a control fighter. You are giving up on damage runes to do it. The status penalty from frightened doesn't stack with the others so its probably excessive.
Well, that's the fighter purpose.
Hammer/flail builds were already over the top, and with the crushing rune they made the even more powerful.
We are currently playing with s fighter with champ dedication:
- warhammer + light hammer ( double slice)
- champion reaction
- combat reflexes
- greater crushing runes and greater fearsome runes.
- disruptive stanceWhen they crit, the enemy is prone, clumsy 2, enfeebled 2, frightened 2.
It's a huge damage boost for the whole party, making things way easier.
Apart from that,to me maneuvers alone feel just bad ( eventually, assurance can be worth it sometimes, but having to invest either in the athletics skill and one skill feat is no the best deal) because an attack tend to always be better.
Its a nice way to do a control fighter. You are giving up on damage runes to do it. The status penalty from frightened doesn't stack with the others so its probably excessive.
The fighter in our group is a Champion MC and a Cleric MC. Does the most martial damage in the group, while also having a good AC and using the Champion reaction to defend people.
Casters are the most powerful characters in the group. They make fights very easy with high level spells. The fervor witch healer dropped an Eclipse Burst on the enemies, did something like 400 or 500 damage in a round. Then proceeded to hex fervor the archer for extra damage, healed himself while being attacked, cast a heal hex on an damaged martial, while the martials just kept swinging.
The oracle showed why casters should never get full martial ability while casting. She smashed someone with debilitating dichotomy and a monk flurry as she is a Monk MC. Then did a spirt blast and flurry. She had to 90 point plus damage rounds. Just brutal.
Well, that's the fighter purpose.
Hammer/flail builds were already over the top, and with the crushing rune they made the even more powerful.
We are currently playing with s fighter with champ dedication:
- warhammer + light hammer ( double slice)
- champion reaction
- combat reflexes
- greater crushing runes and greater fearsome runes.
- disruptive stanceWhen they crit, the enemy is prone, clumsy 2, enfeebled 2, frightened 2.
It's a huge damage boost for the whole party, making things way easier.
Apart from that,to me maneuvers alone feel just bad ( eventually, assurance can be worth it sometimes, but having to invest either in the athletics skill and one skill feat is no the best deal) because an attack tend to always be better.
Its a nice way to do a control fighter. You are giving up on damage runes to do it. The status penalty from frightened doesn't stack with the others so its probably excessive.
Yeah, the trade off in terms of damage from runes to damage for the party is excellent.
As for frightened, we also have an occult sorcerer who could benefit from it using "you are mine" or similar effects.
Plus, it would affect enemies DC, so spellcasting and aoe stuff would result way easier to avoid.
It's ok to have both imo, but I may understand one just getting the op crushing runes.
The oracle showed why casters should never get full martial ability while casting. She smashed someone with debilitating dichotomy and a monk flurry as she is a Monk MC. Then did a spirt blast and flurry. She had to 90 point plus damage rounds. Just brutal.I wouldn't take DD as a standard comparison, as it's overpowered ( as it is flurry in terms of trade off, but that's not spellcasting related ).
Most of spellcasters won't have such a focus spell.
It would be like saying the magus is op since it can exploit damaging focus spells like stone lance and fire ray into their...
The spirt blast did a lot of damage too, though it takes a level 6 slot. With a flurry with a save spell, it's basically launching a big attack with no MAP penalty. Imagine a caster launching a chain lightning, then doing a flurry. Crazy damage. I did this on my druid. It was brutal. No martial was touching her damage.
That's why I stopped complaining about caster damage. Sure, it sucks at low level or somewhat sucks. But it more than makes up for sucking at low level at high level. They just get ridiculous.
The spirt blast did a lot of damage too, though it takes a level 6 slot. With a flurry with a save spell, it's basically launching a big attack with no MAP penalty. Imagine a caster launching a chain lightning, then doing a flurry. Crazy damage. I did this on my druid. It was brutal. No martial was touching her damage.
That's why I stopped complaining about caster damage. Sure, it sucks at low level or somewhat sucks. But it more than makes up for sucking at low level at high level. They just get ridiculous.
At higher levels, i probably wouldn't dare to flurry ( unless monastic archery ) with a spellcaster, because of the AoO issues, but I do totally agree that using a saving throw spell + 2x strikes is pretty efficient.
Summoner does this by default ( summoner casts, while eidolon strikes )
, but also a magus with flurry ( or just hasted assault ) can easily do that.
Why? Chain Lightning is something you use against mooks. Even a caster can stand up to mooks at high level, especially a druid or cleric. Get hasted up, open up with chain lightning, haste action move in to combat, flurry. Destroy things.