Rage of Elements lore from today’s panel

[keftiu]

Archpaladin Zousha wrote:

Me too! I bet there's SO MANY LESHIES there! <3

To Leshies, Ghorans, and Wyrwoods, it probably feels the way a Plane of Flesh would to us. Spooky!

[Arutema]

Leon Aquilla wrote:

The storyline of "Oh, this elemental plane ruler is freed after untold years of captivity and now there's new elemental planes!" reads like the kind of concept that World of Warcraft line developers would write to justify their newest expansion.

Except the tale of freeing said elemental lord was already told in the 2016-2017 season of Pathfinder Society play. It's hardly a new thing. Whether new planes emerging as a consequence makes any sense is another matter.

[Temperans]

Arutema wrote:

Leon Aquilla wrote:

The storyline of "Oh, this elemental plane ruler is freed after untold years of captivity and now there's new elemental planes!" reads like the kind of concept that World of Warcraft line developers would write to justify their newest expansion.

Except the tale of freeing said elemental lord was already told in the 2016-2017 season of Pathfinder Society play. It's hardly a new thing. Whether new planes emerging as a consequence makes any sense is another matter.

Ranginori, Duke of Thunder elemental lord of the plain of air.

So how does that suddenly means creating two new elemental planes that are very different from air?

[Sibelius Eos Owm]

Temperans wrote:

Arutema wrote:

Leon Aquilla wrote:

The storyline of "Oh, this elemental plane ruler is freed after untold years of captivity and now there's new elemental planes!" reads like the kind of concept that World of Warcraft line developers would write to justify their newest expansion.

Except the tale of freeing said elemental lord was already told in the 2016-2017 season of Pathfinder Society play. It's hardly a new thing. Whether new planes emerging as a consequence makes any sense is another matter.

Ranginori, Duke of Thunder elemental lord of the plain of air.

So how does that suddenly means creating two new elemental planes that are very different from air?

I believe upthread it was said somewhere that the justification is that these elemental planes existed prior, but were unknown and inaccessible for political reasons. Also I believe you are asking for explanation from somebody who is expressing their skepticism about the official story.

[Ezekieru]

Sibelius Eos Owm wrote:

keftiu wrote:

Back on topic: Do you think the Plane of Wood has massive sections of rot? I feel like decay and the new growth that comes from it might be a really cool angle on areas of the plane.

I would laugh if we finally delineated Fungus and Plant as separate creatures types and then in the Elemental Plane of Plants we have... fungi.... Like, I would laugh but I think it would also be legitimately appropriate if we're going to run with this elemental plane of organisms thing. After all, an elemental plane should probably include a whole diversity of forms that the element appears in. If there were no minerals in the Plane of Earth or no ice in the Plane of Water I would find it weird, so having large sections of rot growth makes sense if they're following their logical conclusions.

Even funnier would be, since the Plane of Metal is related a lot with the concept of decay, that fungi would have their home in that Plane VS the Plane of Wood. I think that would simultaneously be hysterical and an interesting aspect to explore with fungi.

[Temperans]

Sibelius Eos Owm wrote:

Temperans wrote:

Arutema wrote:

Leon Aquilla wrote:

The storyline of "Oh, this elemental plane ruler is freed after untold years of captivity and now there's new elemental planes!" reads like the kind of concept that World of Warcraft line developers would write to justify their newest expansion.

Except the tale of freeing said elemental lord was already told in the 2016-2017 season of Pathfinder Society play. It's hardly a new thing. Whether new planes emerging as a consequence makes any sense is another matter.

Ranginori, Duke of Thunder elemental lord of the plain of air.

So how does that suddenly means creating two new elemental planes that are very different from air?

I believe upthread it was said somewhere that the justification is that these elemental planes existed prior, but were unknown and inaccessible for political reasons. Also I believe you are asking for explanation from somebody who is expressing their skepticism about the official story.

Maybe I misunderstood their post then. What I had understood is that they were saying this new thing is a continuation of that thing. But maybe I was wrong.

[Sibelius Eos Owm]

Temperans wrote:

Sibelius Eos Owm wrote:

Temperans wrote:

Arutema wrote:

Leon Aquilla wrote:

The storyline of "Oh, this elemental plane ruler is freed after untold years of captivity and now there's new elemental planes!" reads like the kind of concept that World of Warcraft line developers would write to justify their newest expansion.

Except the tale of freeing said elemental lord was already told in the 2016-2017 season of Pathfinder Society play. It's hardly a new thing. Whether new planes emerging as a consequence makes any sense is another matter.

Ranginori, Duke of Thunder elemental lord of the plain of air.

So how does that suddenly means creating two new elemental planes that are very different from air?

I believe upthread it was said somewhere that the justification is that these elemental planes existed prior, but were unknown and inaccessible for political reasons. Also I believe you are asking for explanation from somebody who is expressing their skepticism about the official story.

Maybe I misunderstood their post then. What I had understood is that they were saying this new thing is a continuation of that thing. But maybe I was wrong.

Hmm, no I think you make a fair point. Your reading does make sense.

In any case, the 'new' planes in the OP are said to be the result of a reset back to an older Elemental Plane composition caused by Ranginori's ongoing attempts to free the other Good Elemental Lords (or GELs, if you will).

[Perpdepog]

I believe the other good Elemental Lords are already freed. I can't point at the source I got that idea from though. Mostly I recall the forums going over that discussion at one point, wondering why one Elemental Lord got a big event tied to them being freed while the others were released off-screen.

IIRC it was a narrative convenience for not having plots, especially plots in PFS, being bogged down with what is essentially the same story told four times. So the good lords are out there now. (If someone could dig up what book that info is from I will give them 15,000 perp points.)

[Temperans]

At least in the wiki it says that Ranginori was freed by the Pathfinder Society. But on the elemental lords' page it says they are all free according to the PF2 Bestiary.

But then reading their entries in Aonprd 2e says that three of them are still trapped and the location of their prison is unknown or only known by very select people. I did find it weird that it said "X cannot grant power from their prison" but they still have the full stat block for a deity. No idea if its future proofing, making it so people can make a game where the lords are free, or if its something else.

[The Raven Black]

IIRC the Elemental powers that be of Wood and Metal decided not to get involved in the Evil vs Good war of the other Elemental deities. And that is why they withdrew / hid their planes from easy access.

Now that some balance seems restored, they are back.

[The Raven Black]

Gisher wrote:

The Raven Black wrote:

...

Now. I just realized that the 4 elements correspond to the 3 states of matter (earth = solid, water = liquid, air = gas) and to energy (= fire). ...

The comparison probably holds up better if you consider fire to represent plasma, the 4th common state of matter, rather than energy.

Bose-Einstein condensates represent a fifth of matter, but those don't seem to occur without human intervention.

(There are a couple of other possible states of matter like 'liquid glass' and maybe some things formed in neutron stars.)

I do not think the people who first defined the 4 elements model knew about plasma. They knew about heat, fire and lightning though ;-)