What do you feel about 2e guns?

[Temperans]

Ezekieru wrote:

This Reddit thread that Michael Sayre (/u/ssalarn on Reddit) replied to has a lot of answers about why the Scatter area was changed from a cone to a radius. And it even cited the Backfire Mantle from Secrets of Magic as the way a Vanguard can mitigate the splash damage onto themselves.

The logic of "there is an item that reduces the problem" is plain bad when it didn't need to be a thing in the first place. It is quite literally the definition of making a problem and selling you the solution.

[WatersLethe]

I really like the way scatter works, since it feels FAR more like a real shotgun blast than the whole cone shenanigans. I wouldn't be opposed to a rule that prevents at least the shooter from getting hit in the blast (although for certain magical or blasty scatter guns it actually makes sense to keep it)

[Temperans]

The issue with scatter weapon is that they usually are meant to be area weapons when you want to hit in as big an area possible, but they are still meant to be targetted to 1 target. They are not really meant to hit 1 target and then ping adjacent targets 10 ft away. A closer interpretation would be to make it target a line, have it target multiple enemies in a line, have it just deal more consistent damage (say 1d4+4), or have it target a cone behind the main target.

Its flamethrowers and sprayers that shoot short cones.

In any case shooting something out of a gun should not damage the user unless there was a misfire or a freak accident (both better represented by a critical failure). But if you are going to have that type of failure then the base damage should be much better given other weapons don't have that risk.

[Ezekieru]

Arachnofiend wrote:

I dunno, sounds more like an argument against the scatter trait existing than the square AOE being a good idea. Pellets flying backwards out of your shotgun to hit you in the face just reads as complete nonsense to me.

The radius is based on the hit on the primary target, so it'd be shooting the pellets forward, hitting the primary target, and bouncing back onto you. Basically akin to shrapnel ricochet. It's still a bit confusing, but not to the degree you're describing.

[Temperans]

Ezekieru wrote:

Arachnofiend wrote:

I dunno, sounds more like an argument against the scatter trait existing than the square AOE being a good idea. Pellets flying backwards out of your shotgun to hit you in the face just reads as complete nonsense to me.

The radius is based on the hit on the primary target, so it'd be shooting the pellets forward, hitting the primary target, and bouncing back onto you. Basically akin to shrapnel ricochet. It's still a bit confusing, but not to the degree you're describing.

Considering that pellets usually dig into the target not bounce from them... it still doesn't make sense.

[The-Magic-Sword]

Guns in pf2e ended up being a great time for us at the table, we have examples of players using Jezails, Dueling Pistols, the Drake Rifle, and Dragon Mouth Pistols in our West Marches.

I also know that some of the players that aren't currently using guns have their eyes on others, I'm partial to double barreled muskets and was going to play an investigator toting an Arquebus before I started focusing on other concepts. Another player seems to prefer slide pistols for guns akimbo tactics as one of their concepts, and most out there of all, has what I think ended up as a Rapier Pistol Laughing Shadow Magus Rabbit Beastkin elf planned... though they were debating if it was worth losing the damage from the Gunsword in tandem with Inexorable Iron.

They've been strong in combat, fun to use, they present a bit of a mechanical puzzle to the user, but no one's hit any walls where they felt useless because of their guns-- it even sometimes incentives tactics where they drop one thing and pull out something else. We're excited to use cannons on our ships too, but we haven't actually hit ship level yet, our pirate hexcrawl is still puttering about with rowboats and a large slightly disjointed starting island.

In terms of the Gunslinger class we have a Sniper using the Jezail and a Drifter using a small variety of guns in tandem with their whip (or the Drake Rifle when they forgo their drifter mechanics in certain engagements where the party is trying to stay at range.)

Rousing success overall.

[Dubious Scholar]

Temperans wrote:

Ezekieru wrote:

Arachnofiend wrote:

I dunno, sounds more like an argument against the scatter trait existing than the square AOE being a good idea. Pellets flying backwards out of your shotgun to hit you in the face just reads as complete nonsense to me.

The radius is based on the hit on the primary target, so it'd be shooting the pellets forward, hitting the primary target, and bouncing back onto you. Basically akin to shrapnel ricochet. It's still a bit confusing, but not to the degree you're describing.

Considering that pellets usually dig into the target not bounce from them... it still doesn't make sense.

Sure, they'll dig into squishy flesh. What about the metal plates? Or dragon scales? Not sure you won't get some fragments bouncing around there.

[Temperans]

Dubious Scholar wrote:

Temperans wrote:

Ezekieru wrote:

Arachnofiend wrote:

I dunno, sounds more like an argument against the scatter trait existing than the square AOE being a good idea. Pellets flying backwards out of your shotgun to hit you in the face just reads as complete nonsense to me.

The radius is based on the hit on the primary target, so it'd be shooting the pellets forward, hitting the primary target, and bouncing back onto you. Basically akin to shrapnel ricochet. It's still a bit confusing, but not to the degree you're describing.

Considering that pellets usually dig into the target not bounce from them... it still doesn't make sense.

Sure, they'll dig into squishy flesh. What about the metal plates? Or dragon scales? Not sure you won't get some fragments bouncing around there.

Bouncing against things that have too high a resistance or hardness actually sounds like a super interesting mechanic. It would also be better than what we have. Only issue is that it would be more complex and thus more likely to be axed or forgotten.