PFS Standard Invoke the Crimson Oath

Rules Discussion

Hello, I have a question about the Invoke the Crimson Oath spell.

You can convert all the physical damage from this spell into positive damage against all undead creatures in the area.

If there are living creature in the area of the spell, does they take the physical damage or postive damage ?

Basic Fortitude save :
Critical Success You take no damage from the spell, hazard, or effect that caused you to attempt the save.
Success You take half the listed damage from the effect.
Failure You take the full damage listed from the effect.
Critical Failure You take double the listed damage from the effect plus specialization effect from the weapon
Is it right ?

Thanks for your future answer.

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Living creatures would still take the physical damage, even if you choose to convert it to positive against undead.

That quoted line doesn't say to convert the physical damage to positive. (full stop). it only applies to undead in the area.

Liberty's Edge

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I read it as no more physical damage to anyone but positive damage against all undead. So, unclear to me now.

Grand Lodge

I read it the same way as Raven Black.

IE You convert (all physical damage from this spell) into (positive damage against undead).

To mean the other it would have be be worded:
You convert all physical damage against undead into positive damage.


That's a tough one. Is it:

[convert] [all the physical damage] [into] [positive damage against all undead]


[against all undead] [convert] [all the physical damage] [into] [positive damage]

Very different effects.

The first reading is how the spell is presented. The second requires some word play.

Oh, English.

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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

You convert physical to positive "against all undead creatures" so non-undead creatures are affected by the spell normally.

when you gain this feat, you become trained in divine spell attacks and spell DCs. Your key spellcasting ability for these spells is Charisma.

Crimson oath devotion :

You become an expert in divine spell attacks and spell DCs.

Is it possible to become master or legendary in divine spell attacks and spell DCs regardless source for the proficiency ?

The prerequisites for reclaimant plea is : ability to cast divine spells.

Does a focus spell as invoke the crimson oath match to the prerequisites "abilty to cast divine spells" ?

You can select this feat a third time at 18th level, gaining either a third spell from the list above, death ward, flame strike, or sunburst, which you can cast once per day; additionally, all three spells from this feat heighten to 7th level, and you become a master of divine spell attacks and spell DCs.

Does the master proficiency apply itself on "invoke the crimson oath" spell ?

Liberty's Edge

1) Yes, your base class doesn't need to be able to cast spells to gain spellcasting proficiency from other sources, like archetypes, though you won't be getting legendary spellcasting proficiency from anything other than being a full actual spellcaster.

2) Invoke the Crimson Oath says it's a divine spell, so it counts as being able to cast divine spells. If Reclaimant Plea needed something more specific, it would probably say something like "ability to cast divine spells from spell slots."

3) Since it's a divine spell, the DC for it is calculated using your divine spell proficiency, which can be increased by feats like Reclaimant Plea.

So a witch with divine spells from fervor patron function although the character uses his/her Intelligence modifier for theses spells ?

Horizon Hunters

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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Yes, Divine is not by default a Wisdom based tradition. None of the traditions are default anything.

Sorcerers, Summoners, and Oracles use Cha
Witches use Int
Clerics use Wis

It's the same for other traditions too

For Arcane:
Cha - Sorcerer, Summoner
Int - Magus, Witch, Wizard
Wis - None

For Occult:
Cha - Bard, Psychic, Sorcerer, Summoner
Int - Psychic, Witch
Wis - None

For Primal:
Cha - Sorcerer, Summoner
Int - Witch
Wis - Druid

You deal normal melee damage for your weapon, including all appropriate bonuses, penalties, modifiers, and properties, to each creature in the spell’s area; they must each attempt a basic Fortitude save.

If the weapon has the grapple trait, is it possible to grapple opponents with the crimson oath spell ?

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