I was messing around with building some Grippli with the Knotted Nets teamwork feat, and found that nets qualify for the Eldritch Archer's Ranged Weapon Bond. Lol. And could be used with Overwatch Vortex, even though you can probably only control a limited number of nets at one time. Got me thinking of other possibilities like combining the Rhino Charge and Charging Hurler feats, with the Hurling Charge Rage Power. Just wanted to make sure that some of this actually works before dedicating too much time to it.
First, does the net, in fact, qualify for the Eldritch Archer's Ranged Weapon Bond? I like the idea of delivering something like Shocking Grasp via a net.
Second, can you ready more than one net attack with Overwatch Style/Vortex?
Second second, how many freaking nets can one person control? Is it like a dog-walker with eight leases in one hand?
Third, can I actually throw two nets in a single charge attack that I readied as a standard action via Rhino Charge with Charging Hurler and Hurling Charge?
so a few things to consider:
1: the eldritch archer magus get a ranged weapon as bounded item, if he is not holding it, like in case he just throw it, when he try to cast a spell he will be in trouble like any other wizard not holding onto his bounded item when casting. (" If a wizard attempts to cast a spell without his bonded object worn or in hand, he must make a concentration check or lose the spell. The DC for this check is equal to 20 + the spell's level")
2: a net is very easy to cut, in fact it it one of the best ways to get out of it, should one have a net as his bounded item i fear it won't be his bounded item for long if used as a net.
3: the overwatch style specifically give ranged attacks, not attack actions or standard actions so charging as a ranged attack is a no go. (or any other standard action, see the whole mess of why it can't be used with vital strike on many threads in the rule forum).
4: to throw more then one net with overwatch you need to be able to pull them out as free actions(\swift for just 2 attacks). quick draw should work or having them in both hands in the start of your turn.
5: i think most GM won't allow a net with eldritch archer at all, for ranged spellstrike, as it call out to make a ranged attack and not a ranged touch attack ("an eldritch archer can make one free ranged attack with a ranged weapon.. ") the same as they won't let a normal magus use a melee weapon that has a touch attack (idk maybe flame blade spell?) to deliver his touch spells with since normal magus call for melee attack and not melee touch attacks. (and he need to get a specific arcana to do so)
6: A net call out that it need to be held to limit the movement of the target. As such i would limit using it for restraining at two.
-or up to the limit of your functioning arms\limbs capable of holding an item. (but you can always let go of the net if you don't care about limited their movement.)
I should have been more clear...
Overwatch Style/Vortex just made me think about how many nets can one possibly control, but since you can tie the rope to a tree it doesn't matter.
Overwatch Style/Vortex has nothing to do with readying a charge... that is what Rhino Charge is for. Hurling Charge and Charging Hurler just turn that readied charge into 2 nets. Lol.
The net as a bonded item is risky, but this is likely for an enemy NPC that would be using a net and Ranged Spellstrike against the party... probably against an Animal Companion or Mount, because it would give me reason to use a whole bunch of frogs with Knotted Nets. When it comes to ridiculous $#!+ like Grippli using nets and teamwork to bring down Large, or larger, targets... more the merrier!
Since Knotted Nets is a teamwork feat, we could work towards Coordinated Charge for any of the frogs usings Charging Hurler/Hurling Charge/Rhino Charge. The Pack Rager Barbarian even gets Raging Tactician, and could hand out teamwork feats. The Battle Scion Skald could hand out both teamwork feats AND Rage Powers. We have lots of options for lots of frogs...
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Just to add more clarity that targeting touch AC doesn’t negate the ability to use ranged spellstrike… one of the top suggested tactics for Eldritch archers is to pick up some Dye Arrows to use for spellstrikes to ensure you hit the target. It’s a weird tactic since it kinda defeats the purpose of a spellstrike by dealing no weapon damage… but it is a valid tactic nonetheless… using spellstrike with a net is perfectly valid and actually makes more sense, as with a net it’s more about adding damage to a normally non-damaging attack.. whereas dye arrow spellstrikes are about sacrificing weapon damage for a better chance to hit.
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Something about delivering Shocking Grasp through a net is hilarious to me. It would suck so bad, too... You get netted, and at first it's like "well, whatever, this is inconvenient" then BBBBBZZZZZZZZZZZZAAAAAAAAHAHHHHHHH. It goes from that scene in Kung Pao with the tiny net, to something much more diabolical in a hurry.
But, the overall scene is still going to be epic... frogs, lots of freaking frogs, coming out of the woodwork with nets... freaking nets! Should be wonderful [for me].
Hmm... now I need to figure out a decent Warpriest with nets, because Sacred Weapon damages is definitely better than no damage.
i don't think sacred weapon will work with nets.
when something in pathfinder say it alter something else you need the basic thing it alters. sacred weapon alter the weapon normal damage and nets do not have a normal damage. (if they had listed "0" in damage then it might work but they have it listed as "-")
"This increase in damage does not affect any other aspect of the weapon, and doesn’t apply to alchemical items, bombs, or other weapons that only deal energy damage."
if it doesn't work with other weapons that do deal damage but not base damage, it shouldn't work with a weapon that deal no damage at all.
and it say it increase the damage. if the damage is not there it have nothing to increase to start with.
tou might be able to pull it off with a snag net when you try and trip with it and decide to deal the 1 damage instead of tripping.
In regards to durable nets, the Darkleaf Cloth special material would appear to be suitable (it doesn't mention rope items, but a net could be made of leather or hide). It has Hardness 10 and 20 hit points per inch of thickness. Since a normal net has 5 hit points and is assumed to be a rope analogue, we can see a rope item has Hardness 0 and 2 hp/inch of thickness, which means we can extrapolate that a medium net should have the hit points of 2.5 inches of material. So a Darkleaf Cloth net should be Hardness 10 and 50 hit points. That's pretty beefy.
It costs 375 gp per pound of non-clothing/non-armor item it's made of, so a medium net would normally be 6 pounds (it will only weigh 3 pounds as darkleaf cloth, but I believe you use the item's base weight for this), so 20 gp (base) +2,250, so about as much as a +1 weapon. Then when ready, can get a masterwork one (or cast masterwork transformation) for 300 gp.
Once you can afford to get it to a +1 enhancement bonus, you can also add impervious for extra survivability. That's a flat 3,000 gp but won't cost you a +1 enhancement cost. Impervious will double its hardness and hit points (per enhancement bonus), so at least hardness 20 and 100 hit points, making it pretty damn unlikely anyone is going to damage it. And impervious will stop any effect, even magical or supernatural ones, that would rot or warp or otherwise destroy cloth (impervious metal weapons can't be rusted, wooden ones can't be rotted or warped, etc). It will also increase the net's Break DC by 2 per enhancement bonus, so DC 27 Strength check, which is a pretty monumental Strength check for anyone not a max Strength raging barbarian to make with any likelihood.
Kind of a real investment, but it would be pretty durable, though I'd consider going with the Snag Net over the regular net so you can...
you read impervious wrong. it doesn't double the normal weapon's hardness and hp. it double the bonus hardness and hp it gain from being a magic weapon :
"An impervious weapon gains double the normal bonus to its hardness and hit points for each point of its enhancement bonus."
"Hardness and Hit Points: Each +1 of a magic weapon’s enhancement bonus adds +2 to its hardness and +10 to its hit points. See also Table: Common Armor, Weapon, and Shield Hardness and Hit Points."
so a +1 impervious weapon would gain +4 to it's normal hardness (instead of +2) and +20 hp (instead of +10) so the net's hardness and hp would go from 10 hardness and 50 hp to 14 hardness and 70 hp (if your calculation is correct), still impressive.
you can also add a rune of durability (cost to hire a caster's service to cast it should be 150 gp, 3x5x10 gp) and it would double the weapon's hp (so 70 hp => 140 hp)
and if you can get the GM to allow 3.5 pathfinder spells then the hardening spell can get anywhere from +5 to +10 more to the item's hardness (and cost from 660 at caster level 11 to 1200 at caster level 20, if you cna find a caster leve l20 who would work for you).
so you can get up to 24 hardness and 140 hp net with both spells and +1 impervious net of darkleaf. (cost you around 8,920 gp though).
and i would still advice against making it a bounded item, just because not holding it can be tough on casting.
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Hmm... now I need to figure out a decent Warpriest with nets, because Sacred Weapon damages is definitely better than no damage.
Excuse me, sir, are you in the market for an evil deity that uses a net as their sacred weapon and is worshipped by swamp-dwelling monsters?
Hmm... now I need to figure out a decent Warpriest with nets, because Sacred Weapon damages is definitely better than no damage.Excuse me, sir, are you in the market for an evil deity that uses a net as their sacred weapon and is worshipped by swamp-dwelling monsters?
That is perfect. Thank you.
I had Mahathallah tagged, but more the merrier.