So Beastkin, the rare versatile heritage, are stated as having their hybrid form as their 'default' form. Which means, if they use their innate Change Shape ability to assume their human(oid) form, they are under a constant Polymorph effect, correct?
Because any other Polymorph effect, for instance from Baleful Polymorph, would have to pass a counteract check to actually affect the 'disguised' Beastkin.
If so, what is the spell level of that effect? Counteracting says:
"If an effect’s level is unclear and it came from a creature, halve and round up the creature’s level."
So for Beastkin in human(oid) form, it would be a 'character level divided by 2, round up' then?
Also, even a beneficial spell like Enlarge would fight with a Beastkin's human(oid) form then. Interesting.
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So Beastkin, the rare versatile heritage, are stated as having their hybrid form as their 'default' form. Which means, if they use their innate Change Shape ability to assume their human(oid) form, they are under a constant Polymorph effect, correct?
Because any other Polymorph effect, for instance from Baleful Polymorph, would have to pass a counteract check to actually affect the 'disguised' Beastkin.
Also, even a beneficial spell like Enlarge would fight with a Beastkin's human(oid) form then. Interesting.
That is the most literal RAW way of reading it, yes. But it also borders into the too bad to be true territory.
Generally for a polymorph effect that is permanent or of unlimited duration, I would not consider it to be a polymorph effect once the process of changing has finished. I think the only cases of that are the various shape changing ancestries like Kitsune and Anadi. In addition to the Beastkin that you mention.
So a Beastkin can be affected by Enlarge while they are in their shifted form without needing a counteract check. But if you are under the effects of Enlarge, then you would need to make a counteract check in order to use the Beastkin's shape changing ability (because during the process of transforming, it is a polymorph effect).
If so, what is the spell level of that effect? Counteracting says:
"If an effect’s level is unclear and it came from a creature, halve and round up the creature’s level."So for Beastkin in human(oid) form, it would be a 'character level divided by 2, round up' then?
Yes. That is what I think also for the correct counteract level to use.
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What it says is "Each shape has a specific, persistent appearance, and most beastkin remain in their hybrid shapes by default." I take this to mean that is the form they feel most comfortable in not as their base form. My read would be that both forms are their 'real' forms and change shape ability just swaps between them and isn't a constant effect. In fact if it was a constant effect, it'd be one with the Concentrate trait so meaning it would fall under Sustaining Activations [Core Rulebook pg. 533] which would mean that you could only maintain it for 10 min [and makes you fatigued].
What you'd need to do is actively use the ability as a counteract.
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In fact if it was a constant effect, it'd be one with the Concentrate trait so meaning it would fall under Sustaining Activations [Core Rulebook pg. 533] which would mean that you could only maintain it for 10 min [and makes you fatigued].
I don't think this follows, I'm afraid. The concentrate trait doesn't have any particular association with sustained activations or other durations. As a matter of fact, the action to change shape does have a concentrate tag, albeit I would agree this applies to the action itself and not the ensuing change of form.
Additionally, the text of the beastkin heritage also includes the line, "You gain the Change Shape ability. A beastkin's hybrid form is their natural shape." to contribute further clarity to the discussion.
Mind you, I am also of the mind that the magic of change shape is complete in the action Amy that neither form is an active magical effect, I just don't have hard evidence for or against that yet.
If so, what is the spell level of that effect? Counteracting says:
"If an effect’s level is unclear and it came from a creature, halve and round up the creature’s level."So for Beastkin in human(oid) form, it would be a 'character level divided by 2, round up' then?
Yes
Also, even a beneficial spell like Enlarge would fight with a Beastkin's human(oid) form then. Interesting.
Yes. It's just like druid Animal Form. If some polymorph effect (not only spells, but alchemic too) would try to affect them this will try to counteract just like a dispel for the same level.
But beastkins and other shape shift races like Anadi have a great advantage over forced polymorphy (or even benefit polymorph) they want to remove. They basically can use each action they have to try to counteract an polymorph effect without cost what make put such kind of spell on them very inefficient.
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Mind you, I am also of the mind that the magic of change shape is complete in the action Amy that neither form is an active magical effect, I just don't have hard evidence for or against that yet.
I think that the evidence would be that it says "You change into your humanoid or hybrid shape." As in, it's an action with the "Concentrate, Polymorph, Primal, Transmutation" Traits: there is NO need for these if all you're doing if ending a continuing effect. If the change from hybrid to humanoid gains the action traits then so to would the return 'trip' from humanoid to hybrid as the same action is being used. The same logic used works both ways. as it's the exact same action used.
Edit: interesting site hiccup... Had my post show up 2 min and another identical one show up 5 min before I posted... This place is really action up. :P
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So if I understand the arguments so far correctly, while a Bestkin changing between human(oid) and hybrid forms is an active Polymorph effect, actually maintaining either form is not.
So it does not matter what form they are in, Polymorph effects affect them normally.
They just have an innate ability to 'shake off' a detrimental Polymorph effect, thanks to their innate Change Shape ability. At least if said Polymorph effect still allows them the mental wherewithal to actually use their ability.
I suppose that is the interpretation that both makes most sense and is the easiest to actually play with. It also means, a Beastkin in human(oid) form does not trigger Detect Magic.
Thank you all for your input.
Sorry but I don't think this is the right interpretation due "You gain the Change Shape ability. A beastkin's hybrid form is their natural shape." is already there to say what is the natural state is the hybrid form.
So staying in human form is a polymorph effect and this endures while you stay in that form (effect) you are in a polymorph state and the rules of the trait applies.
I know this may appear a non-sense but I can't understand in any other way. If we consider that the polymorph trait is only valid after the action use so all mutagens and non-sustainable spells have to follow this same rule too but it's not how polymorph works. While stays in a polymorph state keep the polymorph traits and conditions.
So humanoid shape is they polymorphed form and their punchs is magical! kkkkk
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Sorry but I don't think this is the right interpretation due "You gain the Change Shape ability. A beastkin's hybrid form is their natural shape." is already there to say what is the natural state is the hybrid form.
So staying in human form is a polymorph effect and this endures while you stay in that form (effect) you are in a polymorph state and the rules of the trait applies.
I know this may appear a non-sense but I can't understand in any other way. If we consider that the polymorph trait is only valid after the action use so all mutagens and non-sustainable spells have to follow this same rule too but it's not how polymorph works. While stays in a polymorph state keep the polymorph traits and conditions.
So humanoid shape is they polymorphed form and their punchs is magical! kkkkk
Yeah, I've been swayed this direction. Specific wording might reverse that, but that seems normal as they are in fact polymorphing.
So yes, Enlarge kinda has to be cast on their natural, hybrid form. And in trade, they get a good barrier against being polymorphed by enemies while in other shapes.
They just have an innate ability to 'shake off' a detrimental Polymorph effect, thanks to their innate Change Shape ability.
So humanoid shape is they polymorphed form and their punchs is magical!
Sigh. I guess you just have to pick which too good to be true option you want to run the game with.
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Might be worth noting that a werewolf doesn't (explicitly at least) gain any magical strikes from their shape changing. One might decide to assign magic strikes to certain forms based on whether the werewolf is true or afflicted but it otherwise doesn't come up anywhere in the statblock, even as a reminder.
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I think if you could use dispel magic to do things like dispel a lycanthrope's change shape or Moon Frenzy, it'd be something that's pointed out. And it makes mimics, Doppelganger, anadi, hags, ect detectible with detect magic and their forms would be dispellable. I mean it's pretty simple to figure out who's a shapechanger with a simple cantrip if yo work it like this as "You can choose to ignore magic you're fully aware of, such as the magic items and ongoing spells of you and your allies." You wouldn't be "fully aware of" any shapechanging so it'd be PRETTY simple and make finding creatures that meant to be 'hidden foes' trivially easy to locate [especially as the cantrip levels].
I just can't see it as an ongoing effect. And if we're treating it as a spell...
Durations [Core Rulebook pg. 304] "Spells that last for more than an instant have a Duration entry." Change shape lists no duration.
"Some spells have effects that remain even after the spell’s magic is gone. Any ongoing effect that isn’t part of the spell’s duration entry isn’t considered magical. For instance, a spell that creates a loud sound and has no duration might deafen someone for a time, even permanently. This deafness couldn’t be counteracted because it is not itself magical (though it might be cured by other magic, such as restore senses)." So the transformation can happen and not be magical or be dispelled.
And if it was a spell, you could just dismiss it [Core Rulebook pg. 305 ] but you need to use change shape instead...
I think if you could use dispel magic to do things like dispel a lycanthrope's change shape or Moon Frenzy, it'd be something that's pointed out. And it makes mimics, Doppelganger, anadi, hags, ect detectible with detect magic and their forms would be dispellable. I mean it's pretty simple to figure out who's a shapechanger with a simple cantrip if yo work it like this as "You can choose to ignore magic you're fully aware of, such as the magic items and ongoing spells of you and your allies." You wouldn't be "fully aware of" any shapechanging so it'd be PRETTY simple and make finding creatures that meant to be 'hidden foes' trivially easy to locate [especially as the cantrip levels].
I just can't see it as an ongoing effect. And if we're treating it as a spell...
Durations [Core Rulebook pg. 304] "Spells that last for more than an instant have a Duration entry." Change shape lists no duration.
"Some spells have effects that remain even after the spell’s magic is gone. Any ongoing effect that isn’t part of the spell’s duration entry isn’t considered magical. For instance, a spell that creates a loud sound and has no duration might deafen someone for a time, even permanently. This deafness couldn’t be counteracted because it is not itself magical (though it might be cured by other magic, such as restore senses)." So the transformation can happen and not be magical or be dispelled.
And if it was a spell, you could just dismiss it [Core Rulebook pg. 305 ] but you need to use change shape instead...
Make sense!
Different from mostly spells and mutagens due Change Shape has a instant duration the magical and polymorth traits only applies during the cast, after it the effect becomes "permanent" and looses their traits. So it's just not possible to counteract another polymorph or dispelled.
So other polymorphs still applies the char but can still use it's Change Shape action to try to counteract it.
No, you couldn't. Spells aren't dissmissable by default. Only spells which explicitly say they can be dismissed can be.
You missed my point: there is NO reason to say you can redo the action to take your other form if you could just say 'you can dismiss this effect' instead if it's treated as a spell.
P.S. Ah, yes. This vagueness again: there's 'a spell or effect' in the text and '1 spell effect' in targets, I forgot. Still, I think only spells and effects which say they can be dispelled can be (like some hazards for example).
I don't see the benefit in reading it in such a way that you CAN read it as continuous effect that an be defected and dispelled. Everything just works so much better if it's treated as an instantaneous duration action that has an ongoing effect that isn’t considered magical. I'd rather not have to debate if a werewolf has to change shape because it walked into an antimagic area.
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Change Shape action from Beastkin, and by extension Kitsune, Anadi, Werecreatures, and any other creature with the ability is not an ongoing Polymorph effect. The action makes you swap to the other form. If it were an ongoing Polymorph, it would say something like "You change into your Human form. You can change back by using this action again."
There are many drawbacks to having Change Shape be an ongoing effect rather than a Toggle. It would force you to make Counteract checks any time you try to use any other Polymorph effect, including any Mutagen, Enlarge, all "Form" spells, and many others.
Think of Change Shape as a toggle. When you use it, yes it is a magical Polymorph effect that would attempt to counteract any other Polymorph effects you currently have on, but once the transformation to your other form is complete there is no lingering magic.
Another reason Change Shape a "toggle" ability and not consistent: If it were a consistent effect, you could identify a Werecreature simply by Detecting Magic and identifying the Primal aura emitted by such a creature in Humanoid form. That seems kinda game breaking, no?
(Also side note, you can not use Dispel Magic on things that aren't Spells, unless the thing states otherwise. So no, you wouldn't be able to Dispel Change Shape if it were an ongoing Polymorph effect since it's not a Spell)
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No way should an AMF force a PC into their hybrid form. And definitely not force an Anadi into Spider Form, which is significantly weaker due to the restriction on weapons and Manipulate actions. The only thing an AMF would do is prevent further shifting, including stopping a Werecreature or cursed humanoid from shifting during a full moon, NOT removing the effect from already shifted creatures.
You are still coming from a completely wrong premise. Even two of them. Firstly considering one of the forms magical effect doesn't mean we have to treat it as a spell: there are magical effects that aren't spells. Secondly even if we were treating them as spells, again spells aren't dismissible by default. So your point just breaks completely: if we are treating them as permanent non-spell magical effect, we have to make some action to reverse that, and exactly it already exists.
Well, there aren't rules for magical effect that aren't spells in general, so things like duration and such just don't have any basis if we don't look at spells for it. Secondly, you once again missed my point: change shape ALREADY has a way to end it's effect if it is an ongoing one. As such, it has no reason to state you use the action again as stating it can be dismissed is all it needed. I am quite aware that things need to stay they can be dismissed and in fact THAT'S MY POINT!!!
Why do we need a benefit? First thing we should do is to try understanding what the devs intended. Then we can play as written and/or intended or decide that we don't like that and change something. But I think the rules at least deserve to be understood.
IMO, that's the wrong order: play as written and only if there is some ambiguity or issue is there a reason to delve into an opinion on intent.
As to the rest, lets just say I disagree and would suggest against a continuous magic effect... If we're going be intent, do you think the devs intended for kitsune and anadi monks and those that use unarmed attacks the equivalent of a monks 3rd level Mystic Strikes?
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Ok, firstly, why do we need a 'basis' for magical effects? We know what magical means, what durations are and effects describe themselves in their sections.
We don't know... Can you point out if change shape is an instantaneous effect with a persistent non-magical effect or an effect with an ongoing duration that can be ended? [source book and page number please] I can't prove it so a basis for how they work would be nice as how those work are very different and components aren't as rigidly listed and described.
Secondly, Dismiss is an action for spells and magic items which these polymorhs aren't. So already we need another action. These actions have different traits and at least magic traditions are important, but 'polymorph' and 'transmutation' also could work. And then I guess authors just reused already created actions to not make two of them for each shapechanger.
It's NOT just for spells/items. Look at:
#1 Share Senses master familiar ability. "Once every 10 minutes, you can use a single action with the concentrate trait to project your senses into your familiar. When you do, you lose all sensory information from your own body, but can sense through your familiar's body for up to 1 minute. You can Dismiss this effect." Note the capital in Dismiss.#2 Or look at Soulforger: "The soulforged armament remains manifested until you Dismiss this effect."
#3 Familiar's Eyes states "You project your senses into your familiar. When you do, you lose all sensory information from your own body, but you can sense through your familiar's body until you Dismiss the effect."
#4 A Dryad's Tree Meld: "She can Dismiss this effect."
#5-6 A deculi’s Create Shadow Sanctuary: "The deculi can Dismiss this effect to emerge from its shadow sanctuary" and Shadow Strike: "The deculi Dismisses its shadow sanctuary."
#7 Mummy prophet of Set's Sand Form: "This lasts for 5 minutes, and the prophet can Dismiss the effect."
#8 Nereid's Manifest Shawl: "The nereid can Dismiss this effect as long as they are touching the shawl."
I hope this makes it abundantly clear that you where wrong here: no new action was needed as Dismiss is in no way, shape or form limitd to spells an items. Heck there are even more instances where they just use an uncapitalized dismiss like a Nerid's Watery Transparency: "The nereid can dismiss or resume this transparency as an action that has the concentrate trait.
Possibly. They are very magical ancestries. And are rare or uncommon. Or the devs forgot about 'polymorph' properties once more, as with mutagens.
IMO, it's just one of many reasons I doubt an intent in that direction and it reinforces my thinking the intent in the other direction: it being an instantaneous effect just makes these kind of issues go away.
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So it seems that the most sane interpretation is that Beastkin, Kitsune, Anandi etc. have a default/birth form, another form (usually human) they can assume via Change Shape, but once they have assumed any one form, they stay in it indefinitely, until they actively Change Shape back again.
So no form is an active Polymorph effect, other Polymorph effects do not need to counteract anything, benign or otherwise, but the Change Shape ability can be used to try and counteract an ongoing Polymorph effect, as long as the shapeshifter in question can perform the necessary Concentrate action.
Does that sound about right?
So it seems that the most sane interpretation is that Beastkin, Kitsune, Anandi etc. have a default/birth form, another form (usually human) they can assume via Change Shape, but once they have assumed any one form, they stay in it indefinitely, until they actively Change Shape back again.
So no form is an active Polymorph effect, other Polymorph effects do not need to counteract anything, benign or otherwise, but the Change Shape ability can be used to try and counteract an ongoing Polymorph effect, as long as the shapeshifter in question can perform the necessary Concentrate action.
Does that sound about right?
That is how I see it. It's the easiest and least troublesome IMO. The other way makes classic monsters [doppelgangers, succubi, lycanthropes] hiding in society or in an adventure much harder as they'd always be detectible by magic.
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The one thematic (rather than mechanical) reason to have it the other way, where one form is an active, persistent polymorph effect, I would have said is to capture most simply the "transforms back to natural form on death" trope that is very common with these creatures. On the other hand of course magical effect durations are not tied to their carter's life by default so its really not any stranger that a werebeast's death triggers a shift into their natural form than it would be to tie a permanent magical effect to the creature's life force to end at the same time.
To be clear, instantaneous change shape remains the only reading that makes sense to me, particularly when the alternative is to have a trait apply a handful of major effects which are not called out in either the ancestry or monster statblocks even as a reminder that their strikes should be magical or in which forms the werewolf is protected from further polymorph.
The problem with that is that magic doesn't end when the caster dies. If you cast Invisibility and then get killed by a fireball, your corpse would still be invisible for the duration of the spell.
This very thing has caused a great deal of trouble for our party cleric.
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What a huge mess.
As written, Change Shape will always introduce the need for a counteract check when being subject to any other Polymorph effect while in either form given that the effects of Change Shape are conferred by the ability which, as all of the Traits that make it magical, enforce Polymorph rules, and are also subject to Dispel Magic, on top of that, since the Hybrid form is stated to be their "natural state" it means that their Humanoid form is ALSO only something that they can be in due to the use of this Magical Polymorph effect.
This is, as written, nigh unplayable for any PC who EVER wants to benefit from any form of beneficial Polymorph effects. That said, for those who don't actually care to ever use/take advantage of any Polymorph buffs, it could actually be something of a benefit as it would introduce a conteract check on the caster who is trying to apply it to the PC on TOP of that PC getting their normal saving throw against such an effect.
Given that it is Rare I am sure this is going to end up being left up to each GM to handle since it cannot really interact with organized play (unless there is a boon already that allows it that I'm not aware of or, more likely, they offer it to one particularly charitable player who purchases it in an auction).
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I can point out that the result of Change Shape (at least general one) is an indefinite effect.
Can you point out if it's an ongoing duration or an instantaneous duration? There isn't a duration listed.
Which can be ended by another Change Shape to 'return to its natural shape or adopt a new shape'
How can you state that as a fact when the book says "Some spells have effects that remain even after the spell’s magic is gone. Any ongoing effect that isn’t part of the spell’s duration entry isn’t considered magical." How can we say it's not this for change shape? And before you say the quote is about spells, it's the same thing as with Dismiss as the game doesn't really compartmentalize spells and magical effects apart.
If not 'natural' forms (which for all the creatures are defined) aren't magical, what is the point of even choosing one as base, natural and others as shapeshifted?
Things like True Seeing seems like the reason. "You see things within 60 feet as they actually are. The GM rolls a secret counteract check against any illusion or transmutation in the area, but only for the purpose of determining whether you see through it (for instance, if the check succeeds against a polymorph spell, you can see the creature's true form, but you don't end the polymorph spell)."
Good to know. All is very well, but you just ignored the other crucial part of my argument: they have entirely different traits. So they are very different and the devs had all the reasons to choose one or the other. And they choose concentrate, magical, polymorph, transmutation Change shape action instead of concentrate Dismiss. Whatever this means. I'm nowhere near wrong here.
I didn't ignore your point as, IMO, it bolsters MY argument and not yours. If it was an ongoing effect then dismiss works fine but if it just switches between non-magic forms then it requires all those traits to alter your form again. [as you have to 'cast' the make the effect happen both ways']
And to be clear, when I said you where wrong it was on the Dismiss HAVING to be for spells. I could be wrong on change shape being a continuous magic but that is just a messy can of worms IMO.
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The problem with that is that magic doesn't end when the caster dies. If you cast Invisibility and then get killed by a fireball, your corpse would still be invisible for the duration of the spell.This very thing has caused a great deal of trouble for our party cleric.
This is why the healer should always have Status on the party, or at least the Sense Allies feat if they're Human.
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What a huge mess.
Only if you want it to be.
As written, Change Shape will always introduce the need for a counteract check when being subject to any other Polymorph effect while in either form given that the effects of Change Shape are conferred by the ability which, as all of the Traits that make it magical, enforce Polymorph rules, and are also subject to Dispel Magic, on top of that, since the Hybrid form is stated to be their "natural state" it means that their Humanoid form is ALSO only something that they can be in due to the use of this Magical Polymorph effect.
The ability says it changes you to the other form. There is no duration stated. Therefore it's reasonable to think the magic is only present while changing forms, and not while in your alternate form. As I have stated earlier, if it was a constant magical effect, one would be able to identify hiding Werecreatures with ease as they would always have a Primal aura over them, and we all know that's ridiculous as there are many instances of Werecreatures hiding in plain sight over long periods of time. Hell, even Doppelgangers would be extremely easy to out, despite their lore of being able to infiltrate even PC parties.
Also as I have stated, even if it's a constant magical effect, you can not target it with Dispel Magic as it is not a Spell.This is, as written, nigh unplayable for any PC who EVER wants to benefit from any form of beneficial Polymorph effects. That said, for those who don't actually care to ever use/take advantage of any Polymorph buffs, it could actually be something of a benefit as it would introduce a conteract check on the caster who is trying to apply it to the PC on TOP of that PC getting their normal saving throw against such an effect.
Using it defensively is too good to be true, while it being something you have to overcome to use simple polymorph effects is too bad to be true. Either way, it's too X to be true and therefore must not work that way.
Given that it is Rare I am sure this is going to end up being left up to each GM to handle since it cannot really interact with organized play (unless there is a boon already that allows it that I'm not aware of or, more likely, they offer it to one particularly charitable player who purchases it in an auction).
Organized Play doesn't use RAW as everyone seems to think. The GM is allowed to make reasonable interpretations of the rules. The only things they should run as written are the scenarios themselves.
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What a huge mess.Only if you want it to be.
As written, Change Shape will always introduce the need for a counteract check when being subject to any other Polymorph effect while in either form given that the effects of Change Shape are conferred by the ability which, as all of the Traits that make it magical, enforce Polymorph rules, and are also subject to Dispel Magic, on top of that, since the Hybrid form is stated to be their "natural state" it means that their Humanoid form is ALSO only something that they can be in due to the use of this Magical Polymorph effect.The ability says it changes you to the other form. There is no duration stated. Therefore it's reasonable to think the magic is only present while changing forms, and not while in your alternate form. As I have stated earlier, if it was a constant magical effect.
Yeah we get it, you can work something out and this is what many people should do either avoid all polymorphs with such a character or allow them to work. The problem is the rules don't make the distinction that you are. All it would take is a one line statement in the polymorph trait. But its not actually there.
No I don't accept the too good to be true argument here.
It is a problem.
I don't see it much myself as we haven't used these ancestries that much. But given that these are several ancestries and a significant portion of magic that are built around polymorph it does need to be fixed.
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So it appears I was incorrect, Change Shape is indeed a permanent Polymorph effect that can be counteracted. The proof is with the Awakened Silver Shot, which attempts to counteract any active Polymorph effects on Devils or Werecreatures, and has a special rule for if it counteracts Change Shape.
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*finds specific rule note on one item*
*treats this as proof of a general rule that isn't stated anywhere else*
Also, the Awakened Silver Shot is referencing the Change Shape Creature Ability, not the Change Shape Player Ability (because it says 'the creature' as well as the tone of the entire item description, not just because AoN links to it). And if Book of the Dead has taught us anything, it is that Player Abilities and Creature Abilities are very much different.
"It's only talking about one creature ability, not the player-accessible version with the exact same name." -Copium-
"It's only talking about one creature ability, not the player-accessible version with the exact same name." -Copium-
Like Incorporeal and (Ghost Archetype) Incorporeal.
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*finds specific rule note on one item*
It is not a specific rule. It says it counteracts all polymorph effects, and if that effect was Change Shape then it does extra. It is straight up referring to Change Shape as a Polymorph effect that can be counteracted. The specific rule is that it counteracts stuff, not that Change Shape specifically can be counteracted.
*treats this as proof of a general rule that isn't stated anywhere else*
Just because it's not referenced elsewhere doesn't mean it's wrong. There's absolutely no evidence to the contrary, so even one point in support of a certain way is way better than absolutely nothing.
Also, the Awakened Silver Shot is referencing the Change Shape Creature Ability, not the Change Shape Player Ability (because it says 'the creature' as well as the tone of the entire item description, not just because AoN links to it). And if Book of the Dead has taught us anything, it is that Player Abilities and Creature Abilities are very much different.
Incorporeal isn't an "ability", it's a Trait, a trait which has explicit changes in the PC version. Change Shape however is the same rules wise between creature and PC. If you were playing with a PC Devil or Werecreature (Which Beastkin says can be done with proper adjustments) the same thing would happen when hit with the item.
"It's only talking about one creature ability, not the player-accessible version with the exact same name." -Copium-Like Incorporeal and (Ghost Archetype) Incorporeal.
The Incorporeal Trait is only ever defined in one place. The player option has a separate name (Anchored Incorporeality) and partially supercedes the base definition. The differences are spelled out.
Change Shape is defined separately under each of the ancestries that has it plus separately in the bestiary. At least 4 times that I can see. Each place has different text and tags, but none that makes a difference to this discussion. All 4 options have the same name. Its not at all clear that Awakened Silver Shot is refering to one over the other. A link in AoN is evidence but not conclusive. PCs are creatures, and its counteracting any polymorph. At least Beastkin are werecreatures, and many GMs will allow open targetting anyway.