Building-Up Koan


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


Not sure if this is the right place for this post. But, I feel like this is a bit ....culturally appropriating? I understand using influences of other cultures, but it just feels distasteful to use this religious term. I get that fantasy genre makes all mythology larger than life (prayers, spells, etc). So, maybe I shouldn't feel weird about a Koan being some Lovecraftian thing-that-should-not-be question, instead of a tool for mindfulness. Yeah, maybe it's not disrespectful. I take this part back.

But, you know, I don't care if y'all have a second edition, I vote y'all go back and make the ability last, like, a number of turns equal to something or another. For only one round (and it doesn't even boost damage?)....I like the concept, but mechanically, it's weeeeek.

I love this build I have....a Zen barbarian. Pick up the trait that allows a monk to be Neutral Good. Levels of monk, some levels of barbarian (depending on the version, may be dex based Urban Barbarian, or just str). Reskin "Rage" as a higher state of awareness and control that will exhaust you after. The inability to use concentration is due to the fact that the higher state requires you to only exist in the present moment, with no concept of their before a "before" or an "after". I think made him a middle aged half-orc, with a level dip in cleric for Shizuru, flurrying a katana, walking the earth, trying to do good.

Welp, time to stop typing, I guess.


The trait you are talking about is specific to the Aasimar race, so unless your Half-Orc took Racial Heritage (Aasimar)... I don't think it works the way you want it to.

Enlightened Warrior
Source Blood of Angels pg. 21
Category Race
Requirement(s) Aasimar—Idyllkin
You have always found it easy to maintain inner peace and enlightenment that translate well to the battlefield. You may take levels in monk even while maintaining a neutral or neutral good alignment.

Now, an Aasimar with the Scion of Humanity alternate racial feature could take both the aforementioned trait, AND take Racial Heritage (Gnome) for Bewildering Koan!

Bewildering Koan
Source Gnomes of Golarion pg. 30
You can pose unanswerable questions that leave creatures momentarily dumbfounded as they dwell on their significance.

Prerequisites: Bluff 1 rank, ki pool class feature, gnome.

Benefit: As a swift action, spend 1 point from your ki pool and make a Bluff check by asking a creature one of the impossible questions you ponder when meditating. If the creature fails its check, you choose whether it loses its next action or you gain a +2 bonus on all damage rolls you make against that creature for 1 round.

You're welcome. ;)


I'm exactly 172.172172(repeating)% sure this thread is an attempt at a koan.

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VoodistMonk wrote:

The trait you are talking about is specific to the Aasimar race, so unless your Half-Orc took Racial Heritage (Aasimar)... I don't think it works the way you want it to.

you could just take the adopted trait to get Enlightened Warrior instead of racial heritage. then you can take racial heritage gnome to get Bewildering Koan


One could gain access to Enlightened Warrior via the Adopted trait, for sure. Good catch.

Either way, this is something I have been meaning to mess with in gestalt... the whole thing about using Enlightened Warrior to fuse Barbarian and Monk... so many fun possibilities! I'm sure there are some relatively powerful combinations to be made, but I am way more interested in thematic builds and interesting options than I am about finding ways to just jab and pummel and Pounce things to death.

I mean, Primalist Bloodrager already exists, and lacks the Barbarian's alignment restrictions... so I could just gestalt using Primalist and Monk instead without having to jump through any hoops. And, while this may be an especially fun option for some Scaled Fist builds, it is not necessarily what I had in mind originally for my gestalt Enlightened Warrior.

I now have a much better understanding of both the Barbarian and Monk classes, and what their different archetypes have to offer than I did when I first thought to build a Barbarian/Monk gestalt character around the Enlightened Warrior trait... I'm glad I waited until I had this more thorough knowledge of both classes before attempting it, though. And a much more mature, less murderhobo building philosophy that will actually produce a flavorful and playable character instead of a meathead.


Ah, I wasn't talking about the gnome ability, but the Unchained Monk's level 8 ki power. Building-Up Koan and Breaking-Down Koan.

He will be adopted, and have Enlightened Warrior. Shizuru being his patron, he'll not only flurry with a a katana eventually, but he'll be able to refill his ki with Bronze Gong. The better option will be continually having Ki Leech going as a qinggong power at level 10. But he has access to the Repose domain, so he can use a conductive weapon to stagger (no save) any enemy, which will trigger Medusa's Wrath for another two hits during the flurry.

I don't remember the exact build, but it wasn't many levels into barbarian. Rage was refilled through crits and kills, through half orc feats. I think the biggest mechanical draw to the build I was making was when there existed an enchantment that would boost ANY Morale bonus. It's since been nerfed to only boost morale bonuses to saves against fear...so.

I think I made variations where he would use Amplified Rage on an animal companion mount, for another +4 STR/CON when he was raging. But there are so many different options you could go with, with this build. I've been playing around with different ideas again lately.

I think Ascetic Style so he can use the katana for most things, and an enchanted clockwork arm and leg.

It is not optimal. But I very much enjoy the flavor. Wandering sword-saint archetype of fictional character.

I do wish they made Hungry Ghost Monk compatible with Unchained Monk. When I crit or kill, I regain rage, ki, health, happiness, my pockets fill with candy. Everything good happens with I hit in that 15-20 threat range. Lots of attacks per turn to attempt a crit.

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