Grab ability question


Rules Questions


Hi,

My party is fighting an owlbear and one of the characters was grabbed by the owlbear.
My question is on the following round while maintaining the grab and automatically inflicting the indicated claw damage, can the owlbear still make it's full attack while grabbing or is it limited to inflicting the grab damage on the grappled character for that round? And if it can still make regular attacks they would be at -2 due to the grappled condition?

Thanks.


I mostly deal with 3.5 Grappling rules, but Pathfinder is pretty different:
Grappling
Grab

Quote:
My question is on the following round while maintaining the grab and automatically inflicting the indicated claw damage, can the owlbear still make it's full attack while grabbing or is it limited to inflicting the grab damage on the grappled character for that round?

It deals the damage for its claw, since that's what was used to initiate the grab. It cannot take a full attack, since it used its standard action to maintain.

In a normal grapple, then it could opt to take the Damage option to deal unarmed damage (1d4+4) or use either its bite or a claw (both 1d6+4) and it could make the damage either lethal or nonlethal.

Quote:
And if it can still make regular attacks they would be at -2 due to the grappled condition?

It cannot attack anyone since it uses its standard action to maintain the grapple (unless it can do so as an action that doesn't require a standard action). If it somehow could, then it would be at –2 to hit. Grappled creature cannot make attacks of opportunity.

However, also note that since an owlbear has the grab ability it has the option to take a –20 to its grapple attempt on the grab to only use its claw to hold the target. This means it would effectively have a –6 to grapple checks (which can still beat some targets on a good roll if they roll poorly). This would mean only the target is grappled and not the owlbear. It still couldn't make a full attack, since it still needs to use a standard action to maintain the grapple (at a –15 (–20 with the +5 bonus as the initiator if the target doesn't break free)). It would, however, be able to make attacks of opportunity (at no penalty, since it isn't grappled) against targets but it couldn't use the specific claw it was already grappling with, requiring it use a bite or its other claw (which would grant it a chance to grab another target on a successful hit).

The grab will likely be best used against solo opponents or ones that have attacks that require two hands (big weapons) or casters or smaller creatures with poor grapple ability and not a lot of friends to help it.

One strategy such grappling creatures might develop is that it could, as a free action, let go of the target at the start of the next round and then full attack it again, with a bite and a claw/claw, attempting to grapple again if it hits with one of its claws. From my reading, gaining the grappled condition will not prevent any other full attacks, since you aren't using your standard action until next round and nothing about being grappled prevents doing them, and you've already 'paid' the full-round action cost to do them this round (though they will be at a –2 to hit). This would allow it to get more attacks on a target, while keeping the target at a disadvantage on its turn.


Here's the thing, you obviously can't use your grabbing hand to attack other creatures because it's currently occupied. You can execute the full attack while still grappling, and if you hit the creature you're already grappling, you "grab" again and can maintain (deciding what to do with the maintain as normal). Technically you can hit it with any grabbing attack and progress the grapple, which personally I think can be *too* good or offensive with things that have more than 2 grabs, like say an octopus or sand kraken with 8+ grabs.

I usually house rule and limit it to essentially calling which of your grabbing attacks to be the one that is already grappling, and when you roll the attack to hit again, and assuming you do to grab, only that one get to be treated as maintaining. The others are treated as initiating the grab when you are forced to move onto them because you either missed the "called" attack or failed the subsequent maintain.


Pathfinders grappling rules are a bit confusing…

First you initiate with a CMB (simple enough)
Next your opponent can attempt to escape on their turn.
If they are still grappled when your turn comes back around you can choose to maintain the grapple (normally a standard action), release the grapple (a free action), or hold the target (free action grapple check at -20).
If you succeed on the maintain you can deal damage with the grappling appendage or a single attack automatically. Alternatively you can progress the grapple into a Pin.
If you opted to hold and succeed on the check you can perform a full attack while maintaining the target in a grapple.


You can only do the hold if you have the grab ability, also it gets decided when to initiate the grapple, and it's not a free action, it's a normal maintain but you just don't gain the grapple condition (really worthless imo). I think it may have meant that if you take the -20 on the initial grab, it works like old 3e grapple where it didn't require any maintaining effort (standard action round over round), you had to be the one to break out, and you took the base (in 3e only, not in PF) and constrict damage of the grabbing attack every round, but the limb was considered just occupied. So when you then spent no actions to maintain as this -20 meant you automatically maintained, you would then have your full attack sans the occupied grab attack. But it also isn't exactly what's said.

Grab Monster Ability wrote:
If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a –20 penalty on its CMB check to make and maintain the grapple, but does not gain the grappled condition itself. A successful hold does not deal any extra damage unless the creature also has the constrict special attack.

Again, grapple is confusing and messy and sadly always has been in PF.

Liberty's Edge

1) " (which can still beat some targets on a good roll if they roll poorly)."
No, in Pathfinder CMD is a static value, you don't roll defensively.

2) " You can execute the full attack while still grappling,"
[b[Only[/b] if you have a way to maintain grapple as a free action. Normally maintaining a grapple is a standard action, and that precludes you from making a full attack (and generally any attack).


Owlbear w Grab

Combat Maneuvers: Grapple

there are basic options for the grappler if it has improved grapple/Grab;
a) maintain the grapple as a standard action ALONG with various options like Move, Damage, Pin, Tie Up,
b) release(drop) the target as a free action and do a full round attack with the new free grapple coming at the end,
c) release the target & perform some other debilitating CM action/attack on the target.

Remember that the grappled target can still attack with light/one-handed or natural weapon, or cast a spell (with modifiers) {hello Mr. Wand!}.

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