if i take the mighty template which is a +5 and im lvl 9 whd it take lvl 14 or 15 just to gain one lvl? since the GM is allowing us to pic template
Templates have not affect on level that was a D&D 3.0. In Pathfinder templates increase the CR of a creature which has no direct correlation to level. CR is used as a very rough guideline for a GM to judge if how much of a challenge a particular creature will be for a party. It also has determines how much XP a creature is worth. A characters CR is based on level but can also factors in other things.
the GM is allowing the players w templates to pay for the cost later so i whd count as a lvl 14th character if i was lvl 9
if a party normally is 13th lvl without templates and they reach lvl 14th whd i as lvl 9th gain a lvl or whd i hav to wait untill they reach 15th?
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the GM is allowing the players w templates to pay for the cost later so i whd count as a lvl 14th character if i was lvl 9
If your GM is allowing this, it's up to your GM to decide how it works.
The D&D 3.x series had level adjustments for templates, but they didn't really work and were dropped by the time PF1 was written, so this is really a 'home brew' question rather than a 'rules' question as there are no rules in PF1 about this.
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The increase in CR because of a template is very different from the effect of levels. Your GM needs to make an evaluation of the effect of having the mighty template and how many character level it can be worth.
Some of the things templates give are worth way less or way more for PCs than for monsters.
if a party normally is 13th lvl without templates and they reach lvl 14th whd i as lvl 9th gain a lvl or whd i hav to wait untill they reach 15th?
A PC's CR raises by +1 with each level, meaning a PC with 14 levels in a PC class, and a PC with 9 levels in a PC class plus a +5 CR template have the same CR, 14. So by that logic, you wouldn't get another class level until 15th level (the 10th level in your class).
Of course, all that is purely based on math and logic - templates are not designed to be put onto PCs, and they're not balanced against class levels. And that's not even mentioning the issue of applying a template with more than a +1 CR boost, or the fact that it's not even a Paizo made one, but a third party template.
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Please note that Mighty is from a 3rd Party product.
Looking it over, it might be closer to a +10 levels for a martial-type character: +10 to attacks and +5 to all saves is basically 10 levels of a 'Full BAB and All Good Saves' class (except for the lack of additional iterative attacks), and the essentially 'double HP,' DR, and SR makes the whole thing kinda ridiculous...
Honestly, I'm kinda scratching my head at the intent behind this template: It's described as 'a great way to create pack leaders, chieftains, warlords...' but +5 CR is just too much of a swing in my mind for a game where a CR of EPL+3 is the toughest fight you should routinely encounter as this means either the 'rank and file' guys are no challenge at all (CR of EPL-2 or less) or the Mighty boss is probably too powerful for the party to handle...
Maybe it was made with things like Mass Combat in mind, pit the party with their warrior 1-4's against the enemy captain(s) with their whatever class 1-4's so its simpler than making an entire statblock, but even then why not just do that?
Paizo has some extremely questionable decision making with its design here and there, but this is just laziness combined with overpowered. Combined with the fact that if you were a spell caster, you'd get way less than half the +5 CR worth (compared to martials getting practically double +5 CR worth), everything here seems so far out of line there's no way to reasonably correct for it.
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Maybe it was made with things like Mass Combat in mind, pit the party with their warrior 1-4's against the enemy captain(s) with their whatever class 1-4's so its simpler than making an entire statblock, but even then why not just do that?
Paizo has some extremely questionable decision making with its design here and there, but this is just laziness combined with overpowered. Combined with the fact that if you were a spell caster, you'd get way less than half the +5 CR worth (compared to martials getting practically double +5 CR worth), everything here seems so far out of line there's no way to reasonably correct for it.
Note that it gives "something" to casters:
"The saving throw DC for any ability or spell of a mighty creature is increased by 7.A typical wizard or sorcerer will tripe his hit point and all of his spells DC would increase by 7.
A bard with this template will outfight most martial and wreck the mind of the others.
Plenty of casters don't build for DC, they get no extra slots or damage per dice, and if you use touch attacks, most of the time, you're already hitting on a 2. Sure everyone gets a huge HP boost, but not an overall survivability boost, meaning you just take another full round of attacks to die.
The bard (or any other 2/3 caster) does get the best of both worlds, but note only the suggestion and frightening tune abilities are Spell Like, the rest are Su and unaffected by +7 DC.
Personally, I think it is gives casters more power than a martial. As Diego Rossi mentioned the +7 to the DC of all spells and abilities is huge. That keeps low level spell relevant long after they have become useless due to the low DC of the save. Any ability like a witch’s hex that has a scaling save is almost impossible to resist. Spell casters also get full benefit from the defensive abilities with are substantial. The +15 to CMD means a wizard cannot be shut down by someone grappling them. The bonus to hit will allow the caster to land touch attacks on things with high touch AC. Between that and the increased DC there is no real way to resist their spells.
The +7 increase to the DC of the saving throw is to any ability or spell. This means it increases everything the character does including but not limited to spell, spell like abilities, supernatural abilities and extraordinary abilities. Not sure if there are any other categories of abilities, but if they are they also get boosted.
A martial character will get slightly more of a boost with this template, but their initial power level is usually much lower. This template should never be used for A PC.
The only use for this template is if the GM wants to keep a low-level creature relevant at a higher level.
the GM is allowing the players w templates to pay for the cost later so i whd count as a lvl 14th character if i was lvl 9If your GM is allowing this, it's up to your GM to decide how it works.
The D&D 3.x series had level adjustments for templates, but they didn't really work and were dropped by the time PF1 was written, so this is really a 'home brew' question rather than a 'rules' question as there are no rules in PF1 about this.
Yep, came here to say this.
Before I read the thread I was really ready to say:
"You can't f+$@ing do that mate!"
But then the OP did say the GM was allowing it. But the rules don't cover this, so it's up to your GM.
If I had a line to your GM I would tell them, this is a bad idea don't do it.
How I handle this in my games is 3 rules:
1) First Party Paizo only. A lot of 3rd party stuff is unbalanced in hands if a player.
2) Acquired templates can be gained at the cost if a level, if the CR is more than 1 I have them split the template bonus over a divide (2-3). The exemption to this rule is if it is a template that can be gained via ritual (Lich or Graveknight) then if they do the cost it costs nothing level wise or if killed by a vampire or infected by lycanthropy. The level cost is wanting to gain one (say nightmare creature) using a wish or stuff like that
3) Inherited templates (half fiend, half dragon, etc) If I start at ECL over 1 I charge them in levels to even it out.
I use the old CR adjustment rules cause I normally run groups of 4-6 players. Sometimes 8 so giving a template can really throw off the threat scale even more.