do multiple instances of ignoring hardness stack?

[ColbyMunro]

I have two separate features that grant me the ability to ignore hardness with my attacks. I'm trying to figure out if they stack or not, but I'm finding it difficult to find a ruling anywhere.

the features in question are "Stoneclaw Strike" and "Terrible Slam" which are from shifter archetypes, wild effigy and rageshaper respectively. (Technically the two archetypes should not be allowed to be taken in concert but the DM let me use both at the expense of some other shifter features and a bit of rewording on a few things.)

Do I just apply the highest instance of ignoring hardness? or do the two features work together?

[VoodistMonk]

I do not see anything that would keep the two abilities from being used together. The reduction of, or ability to ignore, an objects' Hardness is not a "typed" bonus... so it should stack.

You might run into some weird occurences when applying the two abilities in different orders, so I would try be consistent in my approach each time... probably apply Terrible Slam first, since it is always active... then Stoneclaw Strike, as it can only be used a few times per day.

[Diego Rossi]

First, just to be clear, VoodistMonk and I tend to be on the opposite sides of the spectrum about being permissive or restrictive. VoodistMonk tends to be very permissive, I tend to be very restrictive.

Quote:

Stoneclaw Strike (Su): At 6th level, a wild effigy can sacrifice minutes from her aspects’ minor forms to turn her claws into adamantine. By expending a 1-minute increment of her shifter’s minor aspect ability as a swift action, she can grant her shifter’s claws the ability to ignore an amount of DR or hardness equal to her shifter level for 1 minute. The wild effigy can use this ability 3 times per day.

Quote:

Terrible Slam (Su): A rageshaper can deliver blows that demolish his foes. This functions as the shifter claws class ability, except his natural weapons are treated as slam attacks. Additionally, rather than granting the ability to bypass different kinds of damage reduction, the rageshaper’s terrible slam ignores some of an object’s hardness. At 1st level, terrible slam ignores 5 points of an object’s hardness. This increases to 10 points at 5th level, 15 points at 10th level, and 20 points at 15th level.

Both abilities allow you to ignore some level of hardness.

Let's see what that mean at level 10:
Stoneclaw Strike: you ignore 10 points of hardness.
Terrible Slam: you ignore 15 points of hardness.

Both abilities do exactly the same thing, both abilities don't say that they can be added to other things that allow you to bypass an object's hardness.

To me, it is pretty clear that they don't stack, but instead overlap.

[VoodistMonk]

Diego Rossi, thank for you handling that the way you did. Often times, in this-here rules arena, any disagreement is immediately followed by shots fired, battle stations, and preparstions for war. You and I do disagree on a lot of what may, and may not, be allowed... but seldom is it ever uncivilized. I appreciate that, especially in the rules arena.

[Ryze Kuja]

Stoneclaw Strike costs minutes of your aspect to turn your natural weapons into adamantine and ignore dr OR hardness. Terrible Slam allows ignore hardness only. While these archetypes aren't compatible to be used together, I'd say these abilities are indeed two different sources, and would stack. Allowing these to stack would be pretty nuts though.

I'd say be nice to your GM and don't make him regret his decision to allow you to use both of these archetypes :P

[VoodistMonk]

Ryze Kuja wrote:

I'd say be nice to your GM and don't make him regret his decision to allow you to use both of these archetypes :P

Negative, Ghostrider...

I think one should immediately capitalize on such a glorious and rare opportunity! Seize the Carp!

Be the Kool-Aid Man... OH YEAH! Shrapnel Strike and Stunning Irruption feats immediately come to mind. Hopefully you're a Gatecrasher Half-Orc. Pick up an Orange Thorny ioun stone.

[ColbyMunro]

Thank you everyone for imputing your thoughts. My DM does tend to be very permissive and generally enjoys when we get away with all sorts of OP nonsense, so I wouldn't feel bad about busting through a wall or something.

[Azothath]

base Shifter class.
Lvl 1: Align=(any)N, Shifter Aspect(Su), Shifter Claws(Su), Wild Empathy(Ex), Defensive Instinct(Ex).
Lvl 2: Track(Ex).
Lvl 3: Woodland Stride(Ex).
Lvl 4: Wild Shape(Su).

Shifter (arch: Wild Effigy) - check Stoneclaw Strike(Su)@6 class feature.
Lvl 1: Armor Plating(Su). This replaces wild empathy, track, woodland stride, and trackless step.
Lvl 4: Heart of the Earth(Su). This replaces defensive instinct.

Shifter (arch: Rageshaper) - check Terrible Slam(Su)@1,5,10,15 class feature.
Lvl 1: Alignment!=(any)L. This alters the shifter’s alignment. {only tosses LN}
. . . .Devastating Form(Su). This replaces wild shape, shifter aspect, and all improvements to shifter aspect.
. . . .Terrible Slam(Su). This alters shifter claws.
Lvl 2: Invulnerable Defenses(Ex). This replaces defensive instinct, chimeric aspect, and greater chimeric aspect.

CRB FAQ: When do I count on having a Class Feature this means archetypes affect what class features you have and likely bar entry into a class/archetype that requires them for entry. It can be rather tricky so you have to read the description carefully. That would mean your GM has allowed something forbidden and thus there is no RAW answer.
In this case there is no RAW answer due to replaced class features.

CRB FAQ: Archetype: Replacing Class ability here you can see where the new ability overwrites and likely narrows the more general original ability. This would mean one archetype ability overwrites the first archetypes ability advancement for the same thing. It gets tricky depending upon the wording.

one applies to claws, another to slams, so in a oddball world you get both but not with the same attack.