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Simple breakdown of how detect magic works.
1) round 1 they can see magic auras but that is all. They have not had time to count them, nor have they had time to identify anything about them.
2) round 2 they have had time to count the auras and can distinguish each individual aura in an area.
3) round 3 they can roughly tell how strong each aura is.
Note: aura strength is based on effective spell level if it is a spell or caster level if it originated from an item. This does mean that spells cast from items use the items caster level.
4) they may now attempt to learn about the auras one per round with knowledge arcana checks. This check will ONLY tell them the school of magic.
5) IF they identify the spell school of an aura they can continue to identify the properties of a magic item.
Note: detect magic does NOT allow you to identify a spell effect only it’s aura.
You CAN however use your knowledge of the magic aura in conjunction with any knowledge you have of the spell effect to follow up with your own spellcraft check to try and identify the spell. But this is NOT an effect of detect magic, rather it is simply an application of the Spellcraft skill.
As to if you can use detect magic to see auras on yourself or not… that is an ambiguous grey area. On one hand, you very much are capable of visually examining yourself and as such should be able to see auras on your own person. On the otherhand, nothing in the rules state that a magic aura must encompass an entire entity or object, therefore an aura could potentially only encompass a part of your body that you are physically incapable of looking at (such as your head), and as such should not be able to be seen… Additionally it might not make sense in a setting for you to see your own auras, or auras on yourself… as the DM it is your judgment call as to if a player can or cannot see auras on themself. If players disagree politely remind them that as DM you are the final arbiter of any rules disputes, and you have ruled on this matter.
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- spell Detect magic must have line of sight so personage can't cast this spell by himself and on himself.Why?
I can see about half of my body,
so I would say that I have LoS to it.In our case visible effect of the spell is on the face of the player-target.
My opinion He can't use Detect magic cause he haven't line of sight on his own face (see line of sight/line of effect description).
What?
Can you point out where on the rules it says that a generic spell effect is limited to a single point of a creature's body?Some spell work that way, Wizard mark as an example, but they are a minority, so a general statement like the one you made has no basis.
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1) I think that even after good check of Knowledge giving second chance to check Spellcraft it is...meh(((
You can't retry to use spellcraft to identify a spell after it has been cast, you use Knowledge Arcana:
Identify a spell effect that is in place Arcana 20 + spell level
Identify a spell that just targeted you Arcana 25 + spell level
A different difficulty and a different skill. The second line covers the situation you depicted perfectly.
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Some spell work that way, Wizard mark as an example, but they are a minority, so a general statement like the one you made has no basis.
You have replied with a different specific spell example. My question was about you stating that as a general rule.
If the rule you want to argue is: "you can't use Detect Magic on a spell to which you have no LOS", there is no problem. But you said: "spell Detect magic must have line of sight so personage can't cast this spell by himself and on himself.", so the rule you are arguing is: "you don't have LOS to yourself."|
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Some spell work that way, Wizard mark as an example, but they are a minority, so a general statement like the one you made has no basis.You have replied with a different specific spell example. My question was about you stating that as a general rule.
If the rule you want to argue is: "you can't use Detect Magic on a spell to which you have no LOS", there is no problem. But you said: "spell Detect magic must have line of sight so personage can't cast this spell by himself and on himself.", so the rule you are arguing is: "you don't have LOS to yourself."Nope.
Read my first message - I give description of the spell. In last post I give quote for this spell which said where can placed effect of the spell.What different spells do you mean?
Part where you said about Detect magic and LoS is too hard to understood(
spell Detect magic must have line of sight so personage can't cast this spell by himself and on himself.
You didn't give a description of the spell in the first post. You argued that you hadn't LoS to yourself.
You added the description of the spell after my post.
You get replies on the basis of what you say, not of what is in your mind.
A person normally has LoS to himself. If the spell is in a specific point of the body that he can't see he hasn't LoS, but that applies to specific situations, it isn't a general rule.
I don't believe this is correct:
5) IF they identify the spell school of an aura they can continue to identify the properties of a magic item.
The spell says:
"If the items or creatures bearing the auras are in line of sight, you can make Knowledge (arcana) skill checks to determine the school of magic involved in each. (Make one check per aura: DC 15 + spell level, or 15 + 1/2 caster level for a nonspell effect.) If the aura emanates from a magic item, you can attempt to identify its properties (see Spellcraft)."
There's nothing in the description that says identifying the properties of a magic item requires determining the aura school, they are two separate knowledge checks.
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I don't believe this is correct:
5) IF they identify the spell school of an aura they can continue to identify the properties of a magic item.
The spell says:
"If the items or creatures bearing the auras are in line of sight, you can make Knowledge (arcana) skill checks to determine the school of magic involved in each. (Make one check per aura: DC 15 + spell level, or 15 + 1/2 caster level for a nonspell effect.) If the aura emanates from a magic item, you can attempt to identify its properties (see Spellcraft)."
There's nothing in the description that says identifying the properties of a magic item requires determining the aura school, they are two separate knowledge checks.
Identify a spell effect that is in place Arcana 20 + spell level
It's a point - for me that was written in first post is clear as I've know where is mark.
So I was right and person haven't LoS on own face.
Thanks for pations and answer)
What if the player has a mirror?
You're all wrong, it's not a matter of LoS/LoE.
Range 60 ft.
Area cone-shaped emanationCone, Cylinder, Line, or Sphere: Most spells that affect an area have a particular shape.
A cone-shaped spell shoots away from you in a quarter-circle in the direction you designate. It starts from any corner of your square and widens out as it goes. Most cones are either bursts or emanations (see above), and thus won't go around corners.
Detect magic is a 60-ft cone. You have to select 1 of your corners and aim away from yourself with it. Therefore you cannot use it upon yourself.*
* There are ways to do so, but for your standard medium sized creature, you normally cannot do so.
So if I am wearing a ring on my finger, and in that same hand I am holding a magic item. If I cast Detect Magic would I:
1) Be able to determine if the ring on my finger is magical?2) Be able to determine if the item I'm holding in my hand is magical?
If I cast burning hands, and there is a tiny creature sharing my space, can I include the tiny creature in the effect of the burning hands spell?
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Cones generally are burst or emanations, so they don't turn around obstacles. If you aim a cone for a corner of a square toward yourself it meets an obstacle, you. That will give cover and possibly total cover to anything beyond your square in the cone.
I suppose the description of the cones was written that way as generally not affecting anything behind the first square isn't an intended result, not because you can't aim the cone toward yourself.
Even if we disregard my opinion, a character's unarmed reach extends in the adjacent square, so legs, arms, shoulders, and any other part of the body that can potentially make an unarmed attack there can be extended there while you use Detect Magic and examinated.
If I cast burning hands, and there is a tiny creature sharing my space, can I include the tiny creature in the effect of the burning hands spell?I would allow it, but you would be burning yourself, too.
I would also allow it, but without burning yourself. But I would further expand on that, I'd actually subdivide the 5' square into 2.5 x 2.5 squares, and determine which sub square the tiny creature was in. And from there that would determine which direction your cone was pointing - which may or may not be the way you want it to point for other purposes.
Mostly I just wanted to illustrate that while we can certainly read the rules, and apply a very hard line about what is/isn't allowed. But really we should be applying a rational approach to the application of the rules for these kind of edge cases. Needing to cast detect magic on yourself is certainly an edge case.
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If I cast burning hands, and there is a tiny creature sharing my space, can I include the tiny creature in the effect of the burning hands spell?I would allow it, but you would be burning yourself, too.I would also allow it, but without burning yourself. But I would further expand on that, I'd actually subdivide the 5' square into 2.5 x 2.5 squares, and determine which sub square the tiny creature was in. And from there that would determine which direction your cone was pointing - which may or may not be the way you want it to point for other purposes.
Mostly I just wanted to illustrate that while we can certainly read the rules, and apply a very hard line about what is/isn't allowed. But really we should be applying a rational approach to the application of the rules for these kind of edge cases. Needing to cast detect magic on yourself is certainly an edge case.
I would have the caster burn himself because we are speaking of 6 seconds round and targets that are moving. Essentially you are using one of those "flamethrowers" that construction workers use to fix the bitumen insulating sheath on roofs to aim against someone attacking your feet.
I could allow some kind of check (generally spellcraft) to better aim the spell and avoid damage, but it will not be automatic.
So if I am wearing a ring on my finger, and in that same hand I am holding a magic item. If I cast Detect Magic would I:
1) Be able to determine if the ring on my finger is magical?
2) Be able to determine if the item I'm holding in my hand is magical?If I cast burning hands, and there is a tiny creature sharing my space, can I include the tiny creature in the effect of the burning hands spell?
1. No, because it's within your square, and cones are emanated outwards from a corner of the square.
2. No, see above.
3. No, see above.
Attempting to ascertain the properties of a magic item takes 3 rounds per item to be identified and you must be able to thoroughly examine the object.Retry? When using detect magic or identify to learn the properties of magic items, you can only attempt to ascertain the properties of an individual item once per day. Additional attempts reveal the same results
For a typical small magic item, how do you thoroughly examine a magic item if you can't flip it over in your hands? Do you carry a small table around with you everywhere so you can't put it on display like in a museum, walk all around it, examine it from every angle - from 5' away?
For a typical small magic item, how do you thoroughly examine a magic item if you can't flip it over in your hands? Do you carry a small table around with you everywhere so you can't put it on display like in a museum, walk all around it, examine it from every angle - from 5' away?
Attempting to ascertain the properties of a magic item takes 3 rounds per item to be identified and you must be able to thoroughly examine the object.Retry? When using detect magic or identify to learn the properties of magic items, you can only attempt to ascertain the properties of an individual item once per day. Additional attempts reveal the same results
Do you cut it apart? Dismantle it to figure out how it's put together? If not, then are you really thoroughly examining it? If so, are you damaging the object while examining it?
As written, you cannot cast detect magic on the same square you're in as a medium-sized creature and have to examine the item in the next square over. How you do so, I don't really care.
Oh, I agree with you, that a pedantic reading of the rules, it must be 5' away. I expect no one would actually play that way if the issue ever came up. Thus it is not a rational application of the rules.
Sorry paladins. Creatures must be at least 5 feet away for you to determine if its evil or not. If the tiny creature is in your space, drinking your blood, you can't determine its evil.
Superman can't look through lead - or anything that is closer than 5' to his face.