What skill is used to craft wonderous items?

[Yqatuba]

Probably a dumb question but I'm not sure.

[Chell Raighn]

All wonderous items can be crafted using Spellcraft. Craft can be used as a substitute if the craft skill used can create the underlying armor (such as Craft(jewelry) for amulets)

[Yqatuba]

OK. Also, how do you figure out the DC?

[Derklord]

aonprd.com -> Rules -> Magic Items -> Magic Item Creation. Or CRB pgs. 548ff.

[Mysterious Stranger]

Are you talking about the skill to enchant the item or to create it? All magic items require a masterwork version of the magic items as part of the material cost of creating the magic item. Normally spellcraft is used to enchant the mundane item to create the magic item. It is possible to use other skills besides spellcraft but not much information is given in the magic item creation rules about this.

That would mean that usually at least two skills are required to create a magic item. First would be the craft skill necessary to create the base item. Then spellcraft would be used to make it into a magic item.

[Name Violation]

Yqatuba wrote:

OK. Also, how do you figure out the DC?

To create magic items, spellcasters use special feats which allow them to invest time and money in an item’s creation. At the end of this process, the spellcaster must make a single skill check (usually Spellcraft, but sometimes another skill) to finish the item. If an item type has multiple possible skills, you choose which skill to make the check with. The DC to create a magic item is 5 + the caster level for the item. Failing this check means that the item does not function and the materials and time are wasted. Failing this check by 5 or more results in a cursed item.

[Dragonchess Player]

To summarize:

1) To make something into a wondrous item, the Spellcraft skill is used to add the magical abilities in most cases.

2) To create an object that will be empowered as a wondrous item, the Craft skill appropriate to the form should be used: Craft (Alchemy) for dusts, elixers, incenses, ointments, silversheen, truecolor dye, universal solvent, wound paste, etc.; Craft (Armor) for gauntlets and helms/helmets; Craft (Leather) for belts and other leather objects; etc.

3) If using Master Craftsman to qualify for Craft Wondrous Item, then the particular Craft skill selected is used to add the magical abilities. Note that only items that can be made with that Craft skill can be crafted as magic items in this case (e.g., if Master Craftsman [Craft {Jewelry}] is taken to qualify for Craft Wondrous Item, then that character cannot make belts of giant strength, boots of speed, cloaks of resistance, etc.).

[zza ni]

im sorry, but no.
you do not need any of the other crafting skills if you make wondrous items with spellcraft. you can use them instead of spellcraft for the right item crafted. but you do not need both.

[OmniMage]

Spellcraft is the main skill most will use to craft magic items. The DC is 5 + the Caster Level of the magic item. You can take 10 when crafting magic items. Because of this, failing a craft magic item check should be rare; failing badly enough to create a cursed magic item should be rarer still. Typically this happens most when a spell caster tries to make something beyond their means, or they've been neglecting putting ranks into their spellcraft skill.

All magic items have prerequisites, but some may be ignored by increasing the craft DC by +5. You cannot skip the required magic item creation feats. You cannot skip the spell prerequisites of spell completion items (usually scrolls), and spell trigger items (usually wands and staves). You cannot skip the spell prerequisites of potions (this came up in a FAQ).

Some can use craft or profession skills instead of spellcraft when making magic items, but this only works when the skill used and magic item being made match. For instance craft (armor) can be used to make magic armor.

If you are not a spell caster, you can take the feat master craftsman to qualify for some magic item creation feats. The feat allows you to use your ranks in chosen skill (craft or profession) as though it were your caster level. Though, their options are limited to craft magic arms and armor, and craft wondrous items feats. This is a sub optimal solution since spell casters don't need to select this feat.

When crafting magic items using the master craftsman feat, you must use the skill selected for the master craftsman feat for all crafting magic item feats.

Some magic items can only be made using a masterwork version of an item. Usually this applies to weapons, shields, and armor.

[OmniMage]

If you are interested in house rules, I rule that there are only 2 craft magic item feats, consumable and permanent magic items. The standard rules have 8 craft magic item feats, which I think it too many, hence why I reduced it to just 2 feats.

Consumables are scrolls, potions, wands, and staves. Plus a number of limited use magic items. Permanent are arms & armor, rings, rods, and wondrous items.

Non-spell casters can qualify for the craft permanent magic item feats; they just use a craft or profession skill of their choice, and they skip spell prerequisites. Only spell casters can qualify for craft consumable magic items feat. Making consumables requires spells, which is not something non-spell casters can fake. You have more leeway with permanent magic items than consumable magic items, hence why you can skip spell prerequisites with them.

[Diego Rossi]

Mysterious Stranger wrote:

ArAll magic items require a masterwork version of the magic items as part of the material cost of creating the magic item.

Only weapons and armor require a masterwork version of the weapon or armor (respectively). That requirement doesn't exist for other kinds of items.

CRB wrote:

Creating Magic Armor

To create magic armor, a character needs a heat source and some iron, wood, or leatherworking tools. He also needs a supply of materials, the most obvious being the armor or the pieces of the armor to be assembled. Armor to be made into magic armor must be masterwork armor, and the masterwork cost is added to the base price to determine final market value. Additional magic supply costs for the materials are subsumed in the cost for creating the magic armor—half the base price of the item.

Creating Magic Weapons
To create a magic weapon, a character needs a heat source and some iron, wood, or leatherworking tools. She also needs a supply of materials, the most obvious being the weapon or the pieces of the weapon to be assembled. Only a masterwork weapon can become a magic weapon, and the masterwork cost is added to the total cost to determine f inal market value. Additional magic supplies costs for the materials are subsumed in the cost for creating the magic weapon—half the base price of the item based upon the item’s total effective bonus.

vs

CRB wrote:

Creating Rings

To create a magic ring, a character needs a heat source. He also needs a supply of materials, the most obvious being a ring or the pieces of the ring to be assembled. The cost for the materials is subsumed in the cost for creating the ring.

Creating Rods
To create a magic rod, a character needs a supply of materials, the most obvious being a rod or the pieces of the rod to be assembled. The cost for the materials is subsumed in the cost for creating the rod.

Creating Staves
To create a magic staff, a character needs a supply of materials, the most obvious being a staff or the pieces of the staff to be assembled.

Creating Wands
To create a magic wand, a character needs a small supply of materials, the most obvious being a baton or the pieces of the wand to be assembled.

Creating Wondrous Items
To create a wondrous item, a character usually needs some sort of equipment or tools to work on the item. She also needs a supply of materials, the most obvious being the item itself or the pieces of the item to be assembled.

RAW, a wand can be made with a piece of a tree branch picked up from the ground.

[Diego Rossi]

zza ni wrote:

im sorry, but no.

you do not need any of the other crafting skills if you make wondrous items with spellcraft. you can use them instead of spellcraft for the right item crafted. but you do not need both.

I think you have missed:

"3) If using Master Craftsman"

It says:
" You can create magic items using these feats, substituting your ranks in the chosen skill for your total caster level. You must use the chosen skill for the check to create the item."

[Diego Rossi]

OmniMage wrote:

If you are interested in house rules, I rule that there are only 2 craft magic item feats, consumable and permanent magic items. The standard rules have 8 craft magic item feats, which I think it too many, hence why I reduced it to just 2 feats.

Consumables are scrolls, potions, wands, and staves. Plus a number of limited use magic items. Permanent are arms & armor, rings, rods, and wondrous items.

Non-spell casters can qualify for the craft permanent magic item feats; they just use a craft or profession skill of their choice, and they skip spell prerequisites. Only spell casters can qualify for craft consumable magic items feat. Making consumables requires spells, which is not something non-spell casters can fake. You have more leeway with permanent magic items than consumable magic items, hence why you can skip spell prerequisites with them.

In my current campaign, I am testing using 3 feats and categories:

- consumable items that cast a spell. Basically potions, scrolls, and wands. Making them require to know the spell (usual caveat about collaborations to get needed spells).
- permanent items that cast spells. Staves, plenty of Wondrous items, and a few others. Those are items that cast a spell, exactly as written, and whose spell persists regardless of donning or removing the item. Making them require to know the spell.
- permanent items that have an effect. It can be similar to the effect of a spell, but the item is the one that produces the effect, and the effect can have different features from the spell used. Most Wondrous items fall in this category. There is no need to know the spells.

[zza ni]

Diego Rossi wrote:

zza ni wrote:

im sorry, but no.

you do not need any of the other crafting skills if you make wondrous items with spellcraft. you can use them instead of spellcraft for the right item crafted. but you do not need both.

I think you have missed:

"3) If using Master Craftsman"

It says:
" You can create magic items using these feats, substituting your ranks in the chosen skill for your total caster level. You must use the chosen skill for the check to create the item."

i was referring to his words implying one need both spell craft AND the relevant craft skill. as two skill checks to make one magic item.

i also didn't go into specific cases like that feat where one doesn't even have caster level to start with and he substitute both that and spellcraft with other things ( i said '..if you make wondrous items with spellcraft'..). but yes. in that case one can't use the spellcraft skill. (unless he also have enough caster level of his own to count for..)

[Diego Rossi]

zza ni wrote:

Diego Rossi wrote:

zza ni wrote:

im sorry, but no.

you do not need any of the other crafting skills if you make wondrous items with spellcraft. you can use them instead of spellcraft for the right item crafted. but you do not need both.

I think you have missed:

"3) If using Master Craftsman"

It says:
" You can create magic items using these feats, substituting your ranks in the chosen skill for your total caster level. You must use the chosen skill for the check to create the item."

i was referring to his words implying one need both spell craft AND the relevant craft skill. as two skill checks to make one magic item.

i also didn't go into specific cases like that feat where one doesn't even have caster level to start with and he substitute both that and spellcraft with other things ( i said '..if you make wondrous items with spellcraft'..). but yes. in that case one can't use the spellcraft skill. (unless he also have enough caster level of his own to count for..)

Dragonchess Player wrote:

2) To create an object that will be empowered as a wondrous item, the Craft skill appropriate to the form should be used

He didn't say that you need the craft skill to empower the object, but that you need it to make the object. And, as shown by the rules I cited above, crafting a magic item requires the object to enchant. You don't use spellcraft to make it.

[zza ni]

right, so to make a complete magic item he imply (as i said) that 2 skill checks are needed. one for making the item to enchant and a 2nd to enchant.

do i really need to point out every word? i know what i wrote, and if you look at my wording you'd see i am most careful in how i use them at that they already account for all this.
i didn't say he openly said two checks are needed, only implied so, and i pointly said 'if' using the spellcraft, for general cases, not wanting to go into all the side cases of different options. (i also ignored stuff like the toilcrafter trait that let you craft +1 weapons and armor without any feat,caster level or spellcraft etc)

[Chell Raighn]

Diego Rossi wrote:

Dragonchess Player wrote:

2) To create an object that will be empowered as a wondrous item, the Craft skill appropriate to the form should be used

He didn't say that you need the craft skill to empower the object, but that you need it to make the object. And, as shown by the rules I cited above, crafting a magic item requires the object to enchant. You don't use spellcraft to make it.

You may want to read the whole rule.

CRB wrote:

Creating Rings
To create a magic ring, a character needs a heat source. He also needs a supply of materials, the most obvious being a ring or the pieces of the ring to be assembled. The cost for the materials is subsumed in the cost for creating the ring.
Creating Rods
To create a magic rod, a character needs a supply of materials, the most obvious being a rod or the pieces of the rod to be assembled. The cost for the materials is subsumed in the cost for creating the rod.
Creating Staves
To create a magic staff, a character needs a supply of materials, the most obvious being a staff or the pieces of the staff to be assembled. The materials cost is subsumed in the cost of creation:
Creating Wands
To create a magic wand, a character needs a small supply of materials, the most obvious being a baton or the pieces of the wand to be assembled. The cost for the materials is subsumed in the cost for creating the wand:
Creating Wondrous Items
To create a wondrous item, a character usually needs some sort of equipment or tools to work on the item. She also needs a supply of materials, the most obvious being the item itself or the pieces of the item to be assembled. The cost for the materials is subsumed in the cost for creating the item.

The “base item” cost is factored into the material cost for all magic items except for weapons and armor. Noting that you already have the completed base item to enchant would only serve to supplement a tiny part of the material cost for creating the magic item. You do NOT have to first possess the base item unless you are creating a magic weapon or armor. It’s cost is included in the magic item creation rules.

[zza ni]

yes. i think we all agree on this one. beside weapons\armor
you pay the crafting cost and it is assumed that the price include the cost of getting a ring\amulet\boots\ whatever is being enchanted.

[Diego Rossi]

Chell Raighn wrote:

You do NOT have to first possess the base item unless you are creating a magic weapon or armor. It’s cost is included in the magic item creation rules.

Incorrect. You need the item. Its cost is included in the enchanting process, but you need it. If you want to enchant a flying carpet, you can have as many magical supplies as you want, if you don't have a carpet you can't start the process.

zza ni wrote:

yes. i think we all agree on this one. beside weapons\armor

you pay the crafting cost and it is assumed that the price include the cost of getting a ring\amulet\boots\ whatever is being enchanted.

It depends. If you want to make a flying boat and you are in the middle of a desert, finding the boat will require some travel, it isn't magically summoned by purchasing the components for the enchantment.