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In general as laughing Magus my favorite strategies are..
If enemies are far away...
-Shield+Arcane Cascade+Move into position.
-2 action cantrip+arcane cascade
-Spell+arcane cascade
If enemies are nearby
-Any of the above
-Spellstrike+arcane cascade
-Dimensional Assualt + Arcane cascade + strike
-Shield + Arcane Cascade + Dimensional Assualt
I really like that for the most part arcane cascade just heavily depends on the situation. Sometimes it is better to ignore while other times it can be very beneficial.
I have only played up to level 2 in PFS but as far as I can tell Magus has some really varied turns. Maybe I am just playing horribly but I don't think Magus has to spend every round spell striking to be effective. I think of Laughing Shadow Magus as a Rogue with bounded spellcasting and a fun focus spell :). Of course if the circumstances are right I will flank+spellstrike!
I do wish Arcane Cascade was worded better though. "You used your most recent action to Cast a Spell or make a Spellstrike". Seems like some people rule as it works in between turns.
Things just get really weird to me. Since technically reactions and free actions are actions so when your turn comes up you have to think "did I use any reactions/free actions since my last spell action"...
As a player I normally just like to do them on the same turn for simplicity sake. Otherwise things just get messy.
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- Going for an early Spellstrike is how you win fights. The whole point of alpha strike classes is alpha strike.
I think that you're quite wrong on this.
You claim that the Magus shines when fighting the level+2 boss.
In that fight it really doesn't matter if your alpha strike is on round 1 or 2 or very likely on round 3. You're not going to kill the boss and it doesn't matter if the 50% of its hit points you do comes against its first 50%, when it is 25% down, or when it is 50% down.
Obviously, you don't want it to be MORE than 50% down :-)
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If you have a first round that starts right in the thick of things, then casting a buff is losing a round that could have been used to dispatch the enemies. And you won't find a buff that justifies a lost round before the highest levels (and even at the highest levels, it's debatable).
I think this still very much falls into the "It depends" category.
4th level invisibility can be a huge force multiplier.
Flight et.al. can be absolutely essential.
Even Haste is often very, very useful.
Obviously, you'd prefer a caster to do this while you hit things. But if said caster isn't available then it can still be very much worth your action and spell.
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In general as laughing Magus my favorite strategies are..
If enemies are far away...
-Shield+Arcane Cascade+Move into position.
-2 action cantrip+arcane cascade
-Spell+arcane cascadeIf enemies are nearby
-Any of the above
-Spellstrike+arcane cascade
-Dimensional Assualt + Arcane cascade + strike
-Shield + Arcane Cascade + Dimensional AssualtI really like that for the most part arcane cascade just heavily depends on the situation. Sometimes it is better to ignore while other times it can be very beneficial.
I have only played up to level 2 in PFS but as far as I can tell Magus has some really varied turns. Maybe I am just playing horribly but I don't think Magus has to spend every round spell striking to be effective. I think of Laughing Shadow Magus as a Rogue with bounded spellcasting and a fun focus spell :). Of course if the circumstances are right I will flank+spellstrike!
I do wish Arcane Cascade was worded better though. "You used your most recent action to Cast a Spell or make a Spellstrike". Seems like some people rule as it works in between turns.
Things just get really weird to me. Since technically reactions and free actions are actions so when your turn comes up you have to think "did I use any reactions/free actions since my last spell action"...
As a player I normally just like to do them on the same turn for simplicity sake. Otherwise things just get messy.
This is more or less what I'm doing, only mine is still 1st level, so I can change my mind if I don't want to keep doing it. But I think Laughing Shadow has some incentive to try to get into Arcane Cascade. The extra +2 isn't fantastic, but it helps make up for not going STR-based. And I've doubled down on flanking by using a Backstabber weapon. I'm tentatively planning to triple down on it by taking Rogue dedication and Sneak Attacker at 4th. Though I do secretly hope that some better option will present itself.
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What are the opinions on the upgraded arcane cascade, arcane shroud at 14th level? Seems pretty good. Basically free sloted buffs for no slots. Even works with cantrips.
Well, it is good enough that it is limited access in PFS. But it doesn't work with cantrips.
Some downsides that I see:
It is not actually free - it is bonus. You have to cast a spell from a spell slot in order to use it. Though I thought there was a way to get a few lower level spell slots in-class that would work. Also archetype spell slots would count too.
Also it is a bit fiddly to get the spell effect that you might want. But I suppose that is the same with arcane cascade itself too.
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- Going for an early Spellstrike is how you win fights. The whole point of alpha strike classes is alpha strike.I think that you're quite wrong on this.
You claim that the Magus shines when fighting the level+2 boss.
In that fight it really doesn't matter if your alpha strike is on round 1 or 2 or very likely on round 3. You're not going to kill the boss and it doesn't matter if the 50% of its hit points you do comes against its first 50%, when it is 25% down, or when it is 50% down.
Obviously, you don't want it to be MORE than 50% down :-)
I don't think I'm that wrong. First, you assume that the Magus is invincible, which is very far from the truth. The second you hit the ground your chances to land this Spellstrike crumbles. Second, knowing early if you hit, miss or crit this one big attack is very important. If you miss, you may even have a chance to get a second one at round 3. And anyway, knowing early that your boss killer messed up with dice allows the other characters, especially casters, to know that they have to play hard on this fight. And third, if you land your Spellstrike you'll certainly be targetted by the boss. But at that stage you have made your one big attack so the guys that are dangerous are the other characters. Definitely, you want your Spellstrike to go as early as possible.
I think this still very much falls into the "It depends" category.
4th level invisibility can be a huge force multiplier.
Flight et.al. can be absolutely essential.
Even Haste is often very, very useful.
It always falls into the "It depends" category, you can always find extreme situations where something suboptimal becomes a good move.
I don't consider Fly to be a buff, that's not what I meant by casting buffs.Invisibility is only interesting if you have already taken a punishment. Otherwise, it reduces the number of bodies and allows the enemies to naturally focus fire.
Haste is useless in such a situation as you need to strike fast and Haste is the epitome of striking slow (despite its name). Haste is interesting in long duration fights, not in short ones as you will not get back the actions you have lost.
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I think Invisibility would be a dangerous tactic given you want your healer(s) to be able to target you.
The main thing determined in this thread is how difficult it is to play a Magus! The player has deep mental stack from juggling so many factors and having many options itself. Another aspect only touched on is how Magus is a skirmisher class (medium AC, low h.p., plus it's stretched for stats making it hard to emphasize Con). Yet it lacks the actions for movement (a skirmisher's main defense IMO.
The attractive tactic is "move + Spellstrike" yet if that target's a notable threat, it's going to hurt you as much or more. Same if it's next to you w/ "Spellstrike + Arcane Cascade" which seems quite reasonable, but really you need to cast Shield, Raise Shield, or even move away (with one dev saying a Step made for better defense than Raise Shield in most cases). Yet Inexorable Iron and perhaps Laughing Shadow IMO need Arcane Cascade up to be competitive, so yeah, that seems it'll often lead to using a round (not so much "losing" since the benefit's there).
Starlit Span seems the best Hybrid re: action juggling. Since much of the class's damage comes from Spellstrike, using a lesser weapon in terms of damage, yet one which allows one to use Spellstrike more consistently, should end up doing as much damage.
I'm not sure I would play another Magus unless there was party synergy, i.e. a Champion by my side. Spellstrike's two-action requirement plus the one-action recharge and one-action Stance put a hefty toll on one's tactical actions. Not that I'd change the calculus! Those actions do pay dividends in terms of risk-reward, it's just I'm risk averse w/ my PCs (even if they themselves are foolhardy).
I'd also like to point out that MCD Magus w/ Spellstrike (4th) doesn't seem so bad as I'd first thought. Getting a Spellstrike w/ a 1-minute recharge (and no way to alleviate that) seemed like a dealbreaker at first, yet if a normal melee Magus struggles to get off a 2nd Spellstrike then it's not so different. Except of course you're still your base class so quite capable w/o the Spellstrike or Arcane Cascade, and hopefully more durable. Lower mental stack plus lower risk for same reward (albeit only once/combat).