"Justify" your favorite weapon.

[Ventnor]

Orc Skull Ram: If that combination of words won't sell you on the weapon, nothing will.

[Ventnor]

Orc Skull Ram: If that combination of words won't sell you on the weapon, nothing will.

[Mark Hoover 330]

Say, sorry to hijack the thread a bit but does anyone have a link to this "sawback" modification for weapons? I'm trying to figure the cost of adding that to a weapon and I can't find it anywhere. Thanks!

[Andostre]

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

Say, sorry to hijack the thread a bit but does anyone have a link to this "sawback" modification for weapons? I'm trying to figure the cost of adding that to a weapon and I can't find it anywhere. Thanks!

I think this might be it.

It might also be the serrated edge weapon modification, which also comes up in a search on d20PFSRD, for some reason.

[Skull]

Depends on the character...

As a dwarf it has to be a big axe or hammer.

If human, or any half humans Greatsword or a Bastard sword.

I'm currently making a character that will use a large Bastard Sword because... Well I recently picked up Dark Souls, and wanted an Ultra Greatsword in Pathfinder.
(Im only using a claymore in DS1, ultra greatswords are slow and the attack swing doesn't work for me)

[Mark Hoover 330]

Skull wrote:

Depends on the character...

As a dwarf it has to be a big axe or hammer.

If human, or any half humans Greatsword or a Bastard sword.

I'm currently making a character that will use a large Bastard Sword because... Well I recently picked up Dark Souls, and wanted an Ultra Greatsword in Pathfinder.
(Im only using a claymore in DS1, ultra greatswords are slow and the attack swing doesn't work for me)

I don't know why, but this post made me think of the old Golden Axe game.

Skull, is this more aesthetic choice for you or are you looking at racial weapons? Like, do all elf characters you run carry a bow, a longsword, an elven curve blade and an elven branch spear?

[baggageboy]

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

Say, sorry to hijack the thread a bit but does anyone have a link to this "sawback" modification for weapons? I'm trying to figure the cost of adding that to a weapon and I can't find it anywhere. Thanks!

Andostre got it with the first link. It's not a major mechanical improvement, but a great role play one. The Kunai is described as being a development of a shovel, and can be used as a crowbar without risk. Adding the sawback modification (which may not technically be legal as it's not a in either the light or heavy blade weapon groups) just adds to the utility.

As a weapon it's nice because a cold iron one is only 4 gp, it's simple so almost anyone can use it, and can do either blunt or piercing damage and has a range increment. Basically good for most of the same reasons a dagger is. Good to have both.

[Mark Hoover 330]

Yeah... so sawback sword specifically says sword in the description and seems to suggest its a light or heavy blade weapon. I don't think I'd rule against this in a homebrew game of my own, but I can see the kunai not actually qualifying for this mod.

Still I DO like the flavor of this weapon with the sawback mod added. It would be cool to also have a hollow hilt filled with survival stuff (fishing line, hooks, flint and steel, etc). I go crazy for early game survival and characters with flavorful gear though, so that might be my bias.

As to cost, how would all of you rule this? Is it 2 GP for the kunai, +5 GP for the sawback, then double that for 14 GP on a Cold-Iron version, or would it be 2 GP, doubled to 4 GP for Cold-Iron, then Sawback added for 9 GP?

[Azothath]

this is an overly simplistic question. There have been many posts looking at the statistics of weapons and their use. I'd reference those for the simple answer.

In actual play it comes down to weapon proficiency(class & race), what feats & the number of feats a creature devotes to said weapon, and lastly class buffs that stack on your weapon(s) which tend to be consistent within the class but vary widely between classes (so class build).

I think it's better(more applicable to builds) to work with use categories[high Str, high Dex(TWF), Ranged attks, mediocre martials(lower Wpn Profs & avg BAB), non-martials(poor Wpn Prof & low BAB] and within each a role of 1)high damage, 2)higher AC, 3)range, 4)backup wpns(sometimes a character has to switch weapons as they gain levels & there's Buy Once Never Sell of Org Play).

Commentary:
I believe with a high hit probability monster(s) it's better to avoid being hit as the extra swing or two in the combat sequence may exceed the average damage of using the worse AC option.
There's the old martial theory of attacks; 1)ranged attack{move & pull wpn}, 2)thrown attack{move & pull wpn}, 3)melee attack{repeat as needed}. GMming hundreds of games I've rarely seen that in actual play. Players design for a single attack and if you sunder/Break:1(twice) that wpn they are SOoL.
Ranged attacks have the best defense against melee (staying out of reach) but again, I've rarely seen players opt for cover or concealment. Party stealth is usually a joke.
Party strategies are critical to how a combat unfolds and most players just use one strategy: charge in and fight till you drop & blame the GM or support if it doesn't work.

[MrCharisma]

Azothath wrote:

this is an overly simplistic question.

Well the actual question is even simpler than you think. This thread isn't about the Best weapon, it's about your Favourite weapon.

A lot of people have been justifying their favourites using the stats, but that doesn't have to be your reason.

Myself I like high crit-range weapons. Partly becasue after a certain point crits add more to average damage than an extra damage die would (and the min-maxing mathematician in me enjoys that), but mostly because crits are Exciting!

If I could choose between a guaranteed 100 damage per hit with zero crits, or 75 damage with a 30% chance of a ×2 crit I'd choose the 75 damage option because it's more Fun, even though the average damage is almost exactly the same (average damage comes out to 97.5).

Obviously everyone has a different definition of fun. If fun means super optimization for you then go for it (as I said, that's part of it for me), but if fun means a cool aesthetic with less-than-stellar mechanics then that's fine too.

[baggageboy]

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

Yeah... so sawback sword specifically says sword in the description and seems to suggest its a light or heavy blade weapon. I don't think I'd rule against this in a homebrew game of my own, but I can see the kunai not actually qualifying for this mod.

Still I DO like the flavor of this weapon with the sawback mod added. It would be cool to also have a hollow hilt filled with survival stuff (fishing line, hooks, flint and steel, etc). I go crazy for early game survival and characters with flavorful gear though, so that might be my bias.

As to cost, how would all of you rule this? Is it 2 GP for the kunai, +5 GP for the sawback, then double that for 14 GP on a Cold-Iron version, or would it be 2 GP, doubled to 4 GP for Cold-Iron, then Sawback added for 9 GP?

Like I said I'm not sure it technically works, but I think most GMs would allow it. The kunai is pretty close in form to a dagger, and it's not like it adds game breaking capabilities. Adding the hollow pommel is a cool idea. As far as cost goes I'd expect it to be 9gp following the same rules for a masterwork cold iron weapon.

[Azothath]

for wizards a few weapons are useful:
>> 2 Spring-loaded Wrist Sheaths. Your wands are magical weapons!
>> Close Melee for provoking: cold iron (MW) Cestus, always provoke and proficiency would be nice.
>> Close Melee & Range: 4 obsidian daggers, cheap and effective. Add 4 wooden stakes, free and needed for >that< encounter at higher level.
-> Close Defense: 1 darkwood tonfa(monk). You don't have to be proficient or actually hit to defend so no need for MW but lighter is better. 2 would be nice but I'm not sure the bonus would stack.
-> Close with Dex{likely Wpn Finesse}: 2 cestus(shortsword, monk){Feat}, elven leafblade(shortsword, monk) or curveblade{Feat}, rapier{Feat}, temple sword(monk){Feat}.
-> Close with Str(it could happen {likely Pwr Atk}):greatsword {Feat}, sansetsukon(monk){Feat}. I'd buy one of the above Dex or Str weapons to just carry around and throw off guesses as to your class or loan it to party members.
>> Range: 1(then 2) (MW) Heavy crossbows loaded with cold iron bolts & silver weapon blanch that you keep in your HHaversack (YMMV with keeping them loaded). Durable adamantium bolts are nice later with Arcane Mark/Cont Flame to help find them. Unseen Servant comes in handy with equipment shuffling and reloading(YMMV).
-- Don't bother with mithral daggers as foci, not worth it.
-- Staffs are good as magic items, not so good as Str based weapons.
-> 1-4 cold iron bear traps, don't wait to be attacked.
-> various coinage for Coin Shot.

[Sysryke]

MrCharisma wrote:

Azothath wrote:

this is an overly simplistic question.

Well the actual question is even simpler than you think. This thread isn't about the Best weapon, it's about your Favourite weapon.

A lot of people have been justifying their favourites using the stats, but that doesn't have to be your reason.

Ah Mr. C, you get me. Thanks for getting to this before I could.

Incidentally, I love your mathy brain, but I'm on the opposite side of the crit subject. I can't seem to roll high to save my life; so while the super rare crit can be exciting for me, they don't occur frequently enough for me to think of them as fun. When it comes to weapons, I'm looking at basic utility and/or aesthetics.

[MrCharisma]

Sysryke wrote:

Ah Mr. C, you get me. Thanks for getting to this before I could.

Incidentally, I love your mathy brain, but I'm on the opposite side of the crit subject. I can't seem to roll high to save my life; so while the super rare crit can be exciting for me, they don't occur frequently enough for me to think of them as fun. When it comes to weapons, I'm looking at basic utility and/or aesthetics.

Oh man, you don't even know.

I'm playing a 13th level Bloodrager with a Chainsaw (18-20 crit range) in our main game. I've taken him all the way from level 1. I can count the number if crits I've had in this campaign on 1 hand -_-

On the flip side I need 2 hands to count the number of Nat-1's I rolled last session.

I guess I'm just an eternal optimist =P

(I don't roll terribly. I hit the same amount as anyone else, I just never get crits.)