Is There Enough Design Space For An Offense Driven Divine Melee Class?


Homebrew and House Rules

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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Verdyn wrote:
Cyouni wrote:
With respect, your proposal reads like someone who doesn't understand PF2 design in the slightest tried to design for PF2.

With respect, I don't see anybody else in here designing jack. People are proposing re-flavors of existing classes or half-assing suggestions for new classes. Nobody has yet even tried to design an actually mechanical means of doing what I'm imagining.

Maybe that's because what you're imagining isn't very good? Just a possibility. It basically just a needlessly complicated spell strike.


Captain Morgan wrote:
Maybe that's because what you're imagining isn't very good? Just a possibility. It basically just a needlessly complicated spell strike.

I do not want a spell strike. It's something that shouldn't have provoked in the first place; smite 100% shouldn't let the demon it's aimed at get the first attack in. I added the duration specifically so it could be cast on the way into the fight to avoid this issue.

Plus, divine spell striking isn't great with the arcane spell list, it would be even worse using what few divine blasting spells we get.


AnimatedPaper wrote:
Temperans wrote:

I agree about Kineticist not being a slot caster.

Disagree about the Warpriest design. It seem too troublesome when it would just be easier to add in Fervor as it was in PF1 with modified cost.

Something like this?

Fervor<>
{Cleric}{Divine}{Necromancy}{metamagic}{concentrate}
Cost Expend a heal or harm spell
Prerequisite harmful font or healing font
If your next action is to cast a cantrip or a spell that is at least 2 levels lower than the highest level spell slot you have and a range of touch, reduce the number of actions to cast it by 1 (minimum 1 action). You may only target yourself with this spell, you are no longer require to touch the target to target yourself, and the spell loses any somatic components (and so also loses the manipulate trait).

Not certain of the exact wording, but that seems to cover the bases.

Something like that would work yeah. I personally would not restrict the spell level given how font is always your highest level.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber
Verdyn wrote:
I added the duration specifically so it could be cast on the way into the fight to avoid this issue.

A much easier way to accomplish the same goal would be to simply not have the focus spell have somatic components. Casting a Spell does not natively provoke AoO, the somatic, focus, and material components do.

A 1 action verbal only focus spell that adds the dice damage you're talking about to your next strike on the same turn would be much more in line with current iterations on this theme; make it a two action spell that includes the strike as part of the cast and you're definitely on firm ground. The Cha damage on top of the dice seems a bit out of line but probably not outrageously so.

Temperans wrote:
Something like that would work yeah. I personally would not restrict the spell level given how font is always your highest level.

Cribbed that part straight from Quickened spell. Given the other restrictions, the level might not need to be restricted, but you can do this a lot more often than spells can be quickened, so...


AnimatedPaper wrote:
Verdyn wrote:
I added the duration specifically so it could be cast on the way into the fight to avoid this issue.

A much easier way to accomplish the same goal would be to simply not have the focus spell have somatic components. Casting a Spell does not natively provoke AoO, the somatic, focus, and material components do.

A 1 action verbal only focus spell that adds the dice damage you're talking about to your next strike on the same turn would be much more in line with current iterations on this theme; make it a two action spell that includes the strike as part of the cast and you're definitely on firm ground. The Cha damage on top of the dice seems a bit out of line but probably not outrageously so.

Yeah, that does fix things. I'm still too used to the paradigm that any casting provokes and didn't even think of this.


As for the whole smite evil talk, what the heck is with all that weird talk on both sides?

PF2 100% still has X times per day ability as seen with healing font, alchemical reagents, etc. To say they do not exist is to deny a bunch of the major class features of every single caster. PF2 also does not go well with a 1-to-1 copy of PF1 smite so asking for 1 will never happen, its best to just forget about that happening.

The closest thing to a PF1 Smite is something like:
* Font of an exclusive spell.
* 1 action to activate.
* Duration of "until target is dead or you rest".
* Your AC and Saves are 2 points higher vs the target of smite.
* Ignore up to 10 points of resistance at level 20 (what Barbarian rage does).
* You deal half your level in untyped damage. This is 2-8 points less than a barbarian, but it should be fine considering anathema and bonus defenses.


AnimatedPaper wrote:
Temperans wrote:
Something like that would work yeah. I personally would not restrict the spell level given how font is always your highest level.
Cribbed that part straight from Quickened spell. Given the other restrictions, the level might not need to be restricted, but you can do this a lot more often than spells can be quickened, so...

Well quickened has no cost it just happens. This costs a spell slot to remove an action.

Besides I dislike how they did quickened in the first place. To me it makes no sense why martials can cheat on the action economy constantly while spells have to beg to do it more than 1/day.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber
Verdyn wrote:
AnimatedPaper wrote:
Verdyn wrote:
I added the duration specifically so it could be cast on the way into the fight to avoid this issue.

A much easier way to accomplish the same goal would be to simply not have the focus spell have somatic components. Casting a Spell does not natively provoke AoO, the somatic, focus, and material components do.

A 1 action verbal only focus spell that adds the dice damage you're talking about to your next strike on the same turn would be much more in line with current iterations on this theme; make it a two action spell that includes the strike as part of the cast and you're definitely on firm ground. The Cha damage on top of the dice seems a bit out of line but probably not outrageously so.

Yeah, that does fix things. I'm still too used to the paradigm that any casting provokes and didn't even think of this.

I'll admit I had to double and triple check myself.

And if there was a second focus spell that added your cha as good damage portion (not sure about the duration offhand; but Stoke the Heart sets a decent precedent for what I have in mind), you'd get pretty close to your original 2 focus spell idea.


AnimatedPaper wrote:
And if there was a second focus spell that added your cha as good damage portion (not sure about the duration offhand; but Stoke the Heart sets a decent precedent for what I have in mind), you'd get pretty close to your original 2 focus spell idea.

Honestly this could depend on the blessing you pick. The Alignment blessings could easily give you that, while the elemental blessings might give something more thematic to those elements (Ex: Air getting bonus range).


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

...I just designed the level 1 base class abilities for an Avenger or Templar class, didn't I?

Look, I had the day off and my boyfriend left me unsupervised. Homebrewing happens.


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I mean it isn't hard to come up with if you care about the stats. The problem is most people don't care about stats. They will either: Make it overpowered because "power fantasy" or useless because "this is too good I am going to nerf it". In either case it ends up with the class being bad.

It why we are having this debate and why the new classes aren't very good.


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This thread feels like it should be in the homebrew forum.

Paizo Employee Director of Community

Moved to Homebrew from General Discussion.

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