Caster Druid Who Doesn't Summon (Core Game)--Doable?

[Calybos1]

Our group is starting up a Core game with 9th level characters, and I'm considering a caster-focused druid. However, I (and everyone else in the group) really hate dealing with summoned creatures. They drastically slow things down and complicate the combats, dragging things out much longer than we like. The faster we can wrap up a fight, the better*.

*And no amount of "but summons DO help end a fight faster" arguments will change our minds on that point: that's not our experience. Maybe I can clarify what I mean by 'faster.' I don't mean how many rounds a combat lasts, so much as how long each round, and each player's turn, takes up in real-world play time. Ideally, a good combat round for us means each PC takes one action and makes one roll, moving on to the next player, bam-bam-bam. So we hate dealing with summons, period.

So, is it feasible to play a caster-centric druid who doesn't focus on Summoning? If so, any tips would be appreciated. Thanks!

[IluzryMage]

Huh? Oh totally yeah no just focus on battlefield control.

To be clear, spontenous summon monster is a hilarously powerful class feature...that you absolutely are not at all required to engage in. You have plenty of spells that abilities that still kick ass, and you can just rock with natural spell and some fun domain abilities.

What do you mean by a core game? Only using the like phb?

[Ryze Kuja]

I would recommend Storm Druid archetype for this, they have excellent control and nuke spells. And you can lay down Obscuring Mist spells and still see through them with your lvl 4 Eyes of the Storm ability, which is pretty handy. As Storm Druid, you lose spontaneous summoning and trade it for being able to spontaneously cast your domain spells, so that's also really nice.

Alternatively, Tempest Druid archetype is also attractive for a nukey-controlly casting focused druid.

Next thing I'd do is max out Stealth, so since Stealth isn't a Druid class skill, turn it into a class skill via a trait, and then get Hellcat Stealth at level 7 so you can stealth as a move action even while actively viewed, and there are ways of pumping stealth into the clouds (see below). At level 8, you can Wild Shape into Diminutive-sized Hummingbird and rain hell on the battlefield. So now you can Quickened cast as a swift, Normal cast as a Standard, and then Stealth as a Move Action, and if they can't see you, then they can't shoot or cast spells at you. And you can restealth every round, if you want.

Things to get:
+1 to +4 Stealth Child of the Moon Trait
+10 Competence bonus from Ring of Chameleon Power
+20-40 Stealth with Wand of Greater Invisibility

At level 10, you could have 10SkillRank + 3ClassSkill + 6SkillFocus + 1-4 CotMTrait + 12DiminutiveSize + 10Chameleon Power + 20-40Greater Invisibility =

1d20+62-65 Stealth while moving

1d20+82-85 while not moving <-- If you Quicken as Swift, Cast as Standard, and Re-stealth as Move Action, you didn't move, so this would be your Stealth roll

1d20+42-45 if enemy has See Invis and is within range to see you

-10 Stealth from these figures if you're being actively viewed

+1/10 to the enemy's Perc DC for every 1ft. you are away from them
^--- This is where Reach Spell is important. If you make your Touch, Close, and Medium range spells into Long Range spells (400ft + 40ft/lvl), then at level 10 your max range would be 800ft, that increases your opposed Perc v Stealth DC by +80 while you're at max range.

So get Reach Spell, turn into a hummingbird, move to Max range, and start raining hell, and restealth every round. If they can't see you, they can't shoot or cast on you. They could get you with an AoE or a Readied Action though, so make sure you have a cure wounds spell prepped. Fly away, heal, come back and nuke + restealth, rinse lather repeat. If this stealthy caster druid sounds like something you'd like to do, consider Drow for race. Their FCB is +1/2 Stealth while wild shaped. Also consider getting Cat's Grace and Heroism/GrHeroism as well.

If you do go drow and get wands/potions of CG and Heroism, at level 10 increase all those numbers above by:
+5 Drow FCB
+2 Cat'sGrace
+2 Heroism (+4 GreaterHeroism)

At level 13, get Dreamed Secrets, and now you can use 2 spells from the Wiz/Sorc list every day as spells known, but they have to be chosen from 1 spell level lower than you can cast. So, Disintegrate, Contingency, Anti-Magic Field are available right away at level 13, and at level 15 you'd get access to 7th level spells, like Spell Turning, Limited Wish, Delayed Blast Fireball, and you can change these out every day when you prep spells.

I would recommend going:

Lvl1: Skill Focus (Stealth)
Lvl3: Reach Spell
Lvl5: Natural Spell
Lvl7: Hellcat Stealth
Lvl9: Quicken Spell
Lvl11: Empower Spell
Lvl13: Dreamed Secrets
Lvl15: Spell Perfection (w/e your fav blaster spell is)

If you're not down with the stealthy druid, I would recommend going:

Lvl1: Spell Focus (Evocation)
Lvl3: Reach Spell
Lvl5: Natural Spell
Lvl7: Elemental Focus (Electricity)
Lvl9: Quicken Spell
Lvl11: Empower Spell
Lvl13: Dreamed Secrets
Lvl15: Spell Perfection (w/e your fav blaster spell is)

^--- If you want to be more controly than nukey, get Persistent and/or Dazing Spell in place of Elemental Focus and Empower Spell

[Calybos1]

IluzryMage wrote:

What do you mean by a core game? Only using the like phb?

Built with the Core Rulebook only. No Advanced Player's Guide options, no Ultimate Magic or Ultimate Combat, etc.

And I'm okay with summoning critters for non-combat, utility purposes (scouting, special movement, etc.). We just hate the slowdown effect they have on combat.

[Ryze Kuja]

Storm Druid is from Ultimate Magic, Spell Perfection and Reach Spell are from APG, and Dreamed Secrets is from Inner Sea Gods, so I guess those are out then. Hellcat Stealth is from Cheliax book, so that's out as well.

Why not just build a vanilla non-archetype druid, but load yourself up with Caster-focused MM feats from CRB, and then just don't trash any spells for summoning during combat?

[DeathlessOne]

A Druid in a Core Game only is pretty much on par with being one of the most powerful classes (by versatility alone), even if they can't summon creatures. Don't worry about it at all.

Play an Elf, build towards Dex (Wis>Dex>Con>Str>Int>Cha), pick up a bow and the relevant feats for it. Deviate slightly from the archer build to pick up Weapon Finesse and Natural spell. Pick up metamagic feats or spell focus feats after you've gotten the archery feats. Enjoy being able to use ranged attacks, switching to spells to buff/support the party, and shifting into an animal form with pounce, and then charging in to save the rogue or the arcane squishy when they've attracted too much attention.

You'll be just fine.

[Calybos1]

DeathlessOne wrote:

A Druid in a Core Game only is pretty much on par with being one of the most powerful classes (by versatility alone), even if they can't summon creatures. Don't worry about it at all.

Play an Elf, build towards Dex (Wis>Dex>Con>Str>Int>Cha), pick up a bow and the relevant feats for it. Deviate slightly from the archer build to pick up Weapon Finesse and Natural spell. Pick up metamagic feats or spell focus feats after you've gotten the archery feats. Enjoy being able to use ranged attacks, switching to spells to buff/support the party, and shifting into an animal form with pounce, and then charging in to save the rogue or the arcane squishy when they've attracted too much attention.

You'll be just fine.

Sounds reasonable... thanks!