Lore question: What happens if a Soul is "pledged" to multiple planes?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


So, there are ways to get your sould consigned to Abbadon, Hell or the Abyss regardless of your alignment.

the easiest case is perhaps this:

Bob the Diabolist enters an infernal contract, signed in Asmodeus name, consigning his soul to hell in perpetuitiy, in return for the services of Katie the Erinye.
However, while adventureing, he is laid low by a vile Glabrezu, who, somehow recognizing or knowing that a infernal contract exists, whips out an enslaved Cacodaemon, has that Cacodaemon create a soul gem out of Bob and then Eats Bobs soul gem, partly because Demons are gonna Demon and partly because bragging rights (BWHAHAHAH ASMODEUS I HAVE FOOLED YOU!) thus consigning Bobs souls to the Abyss instead.

So, who gets Bobs soul, the Abyss or Hell?
Does Katie the Erinye (impersonating a distraught widow) hire a team of adventurers to get Bobs soul back by slaying the Glabrezu, because after putting up with Bobs antics as long as she did, she really wants that soul for all the effort?

Likewise, could a very creative/risk affine Individual go full Harry Dresden, pledge his soul to as many mutually antagonistic entities as possible and then grab some popcorn as they fight it out?


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Mightypion wrote:


Likewise, could a very creative/risk affine Individual go full Harry Dresden John Constantine, pledge his soul to as many mutually antagonistic entities as possible and then grab some popcorn as they fight it out?

FTFY


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i'd separate 2 different things after selling your soul:

1. trying to sell your soul to a 2nd creature of the lower planes or the lower planes themselves (via contract\prestige class such as souldrinker etc)
2. the soul getting nabbed via a soul stealing or hiding ability (such as cacadaemon\soul gem spell, lich's doohickey and the imprisonment spell or the tower card in the deck of many things)

in the first case after some1 get hold of your soul , it is marked and anyone else (who deal with souls) could\would notice that as such they would ether need to somehow break the first 'owner' grasp (which is already active, if the target die his soul goes straight to the owner). or negotiate with him if they really care so much for said soul. (maybe it's an angel who try to help redeem the soul from hell's grasp?).

the 2nd case depend on how the soul was 'sold' some methods outright say that they sidestep the ownership (i believe there was a talk about devils hunting down sold souls who turned into undead to hide from their debt). so until said bounty hunters show up the soul is kept hidden where ever it was trapped.

in case of conflict i would use the method mentioned in the souldrinker prestige class to overcome the damnation to abbadon class ability (it talk about how hard is it to resurrect some1 who sold his soul to the horsemen) as guidelines.

"At 1st level, the souldrinker must select one of the Four Horsemen or a daemon harbinger to which she makes an apocalyptic vow. When a souldrinker dies, the entity to which she made her apocalyptic vow claims her soul. A character attempting to resurrect a slain souldrinker must succeed at a caster level check with a DC equal to 10 + the souldrinker’s character level or the spell fails. That character cannot attempt to resurrect the souldrinker again until 24 hours have passed, though other characters can still attempt to do...."


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Agreed with the above.

In the case of the individual trying to sell their soul to multiple entities, they generally will be unsuccessful. In the case of lawful entities, I assume they have in their contracts clauses about not already having sold your soul and what happens if you attempt to pull a fast one. In the case of chaotic (or simply where agreements are verbal only) I would say they generally have some capability to recognize when someone has already sold their soul.

And in the case of powers that steal a soul...well that soul gets stolen. Just like if the person hadn't sold their soul. It makes it all the more likely that those who had already purchased it are going to try to recover it.

And to be honest, I see soul stealing as more of a chaotic evil thing to do. As I think even Hell doesn't want to deal with people (rightfully) trying to recover stolen souls. No! They prefer their souls bound to hell by their own choice!

Liberty's Edge

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I agree with zza ni. If someone steals the soul or absconds it there is some contest of skills between the soul "owner" and the one nabbing or hiding it. How the contest works is dependant on how the soul was sold/lost the first time and how the nabbing and absconding is done.

If you try to sell your soul multiple times most "buyers" will realize it is already sold. Some magic can hide that, probably, so if somewhat you manage to sell your soul to multiple creatures, probably some kind of "war" between the owners can ensue. If I recall correctly there was an adventure for AD&D 2nd edition in a number of Dungeon built around that idea.


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i'd also add that you can count on the soul buyer to take other action if double crossed.

say you sold your soul to X and then hide that fact and sold to Y. and X learn of it. beside trying to get your soul, i think the first thing X would do is collect back what ever it gave for the soul.

say a souldrinker prestige class member might loose all class abilities once word get to Abbadon that he turned into a lich and hid his soul in a gem somewhere. most of the powers granted for selling one's soul are somewhat like divine powers clerics gain and can be withdrawn.


Thanks everyone, you gave me some fun ideas:

Possible lore:

Perhaps fun stuff:

"Ahh, what you think off does reminds me of the cautionary tale of Cyndred the thrice damned, and I fully know what you are thinking off..."
smirks the Ashara the Succubus as her hands massage Minmaximus the cunnings shoulders.
"You are not the first one to come up with the "Sell my soul to everyone and have them fight it out" ploy, nor would you be the last one to consider such I guess. You should however, consider the fate of Cyndred thrice damned who did just that. Consider it part of the "advice and assistance" you bargained for."
Ashara continued, now moving to massaging Minmaximus´s head.

"Considerably more crafty in the ways of the wyrd then you, he used potent spells to mask his aura, and sold his soul to Asmodeus for success in Rulership, to Szuriel for success in War, and to our Lady in Shadows for success *elsewhere*, he then became a Lich and was undoubtedly very much pleased in with his great cunning. Alas, mythic murder hoboes, I mean adventures who were clearly just doing the bidding of the light happened."
Ashara speaks and she carresses Mixmaximus face

"But well, somehow, these adventurers could easily rally every single polity remotely threatened by Cyndred thrice damned to their case, gaining great gifts of magic items and resources from each of them, then, equally miraculously, their blades were of the greatest savagery, and tore through even powerful grave knights in but single blows!
With unshakable aim, the groups ranger aimed at the black heart of the fell lich, and of course hit it with every single one of his special Lich slaying arrows, which the group randomly but very conveniently found on a pedestal just before Cyndreds living quarters.
Alas, the Lich`s phylactery was in a secret, hidden place far from the action, and Cyndred could already feel his soul reincarnating as his connection was cut short. Apparently, his Phylactery just got eaten by a very very adventurous frolicking Dire Rabbit."

The Succubus pauses
Of course, of the entities in question, only one of them would have that type of humor, and well, our Lady always gets her due, and thus the soul of mighty cyndred came to Alushinnyra... About 5 seconds later that soul was followed by envoys from Hell and Abbadon that made their case in the harem of ardent dreams...
Asharas ears perk up and she smiles as if reminiscing about something really funny.
"Shamira the ardent dream heard their pleas, and was of course truely concerned with justice and the nature of the multiverse"
Ashara continues, her voice dripping with sarcasm.

"Many things were discussed, such as tearing the soul apart with one part of it going to each claimant, or having the soul be tortured one day in Hell, hunted the next day in Abbadon, and defiled the next day in the Abyss, but then a visiting fae in service to the green mother made an offer that all envoys, and even the ardent dream herself, unanimously declared to be pure genius. "
Apparently lost in thoughts, the Succubus no longer focuses on being gentle, and her claws extend and pierce Minmaxiums flesh
"You see my dear, the Fae have a thing called "triune existence", a mortal can be split in three, with all constituent parts aware of each other, and the entity then only truely dies if all 3 parts are slain on the same day. As long as 1 part survives, the other 2 parts will, after one day, revive where they were slain. The same principle was applied to Cyndreds soul, and one part of each went to Abbadon, to the Abyss and to hell. Hells eternal torment is typically not "deadly", but it was certainly enchanced because the hellish part still felt everything that happened to its Abyssal and Abbadonese peers, their anguish, their fear, and their desperation of being devoured again and again, and well, his soul was powerful, even after thousand of "rejuvenations" and much sought after, essentially, for all his cunning, what Cyndred managed to achieve was quite literally the worst of all worlds"
Noticing the injuries she inflicted, the retracts her claws and gently breathes on the scratch marks.
Now, if you wonder why no kind soul or entity, such as perhaps Pharasma, did not intervene in this most cruel and unusual punishment, well, to quote a Moregna I am on good terms with "Litches get Stitches". I would suggest that you enjoy what you bargained for, while you have it, my dear."

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