An important cost to miss chance is that it also makes you avoid heals and buffs. Just something to consider.
It's true, but a miss chance that you can trigger for a one round duration shouldn't often encounter such issues. It's nearly an advantage of Hide compared to Invisibility.
I'll soon take some time to add a few build examples.
Hi everyone,
As there are no guide to the Inventor yet, I've written a quick guide (well, with Modifications, it ended up being quite big).
Finally added to my site.
Great, thanks.
I really need to find some time to add more to it. I'm strongly thinking about it, but work got in the way.
That describes my last months: work got in the way....
As for a suggestion for your guide: For each of the Innovations, how would you build it, with some explanations as to why. And maybe add some thoughts on how those builds could use archetypes.
That describes my last months: work got in the way....
As for a suggestion for your guide: For each of the Innovations, how would you build it, with some explanations as to why. And maybe add some thoughts on how those builds could use archetypes.
This is what I want to add: A few build examples with the most important feats/modifications of each build.
And also a paragraph about weapon setup as it's quite useful, too.
So... going through this topic again, I'm still intrigued by the idea of a tanking Inventor. I know the Inventor lacks any ability to keep enemies on him, so this is mostly about being able to take a beating. How would you go about building someting like that?
Armor Innovation is a no-brainer. Picking one elemental resistance at level 1, Heavy Armor at 7 and Energy Barrier at level 15. Leave Physical Resistance to Shield Block. You also most likely want Searing Restoration.
You'd probably want Bastion Dedication to ge a good reaction and to make use of your shield when your action economy otherwise doesn't allow it. Gets a significant boost at level 10 with Quick Shield Block. Nimble Shield Hand seems like a good addition as well, allowing you to more easily retrieve and use items (like potions and gadgets). It's too bad you can't use it for Tamper.
You lose some damage (well, and have to invest some feats of course) but does that really matter THAT much? Your class-based damage bonuses don't care for weapon die size other than Megaton Strike, which isn't super-amazing anyway. Overdrive and Offensive Boost work either way. And you're dealing most of your damage with Explode/Megavolt anyway. Megavolt is also a decent fallback option for damage, even without the unstable version. Strike + stable Megavolt isn't THAT much worse than Strike + Electric Arc, after all. And it could in fact be much better against multiple targets once you have Gigavolt.
So, assuming frequent of use Stride, Step, Megavolt, Raise Shield and similar stuff so you rarely Strike more than once per turn, whould the additional sturdiness be worth the trade-off in damage?
What do you mean by "lose some damage"? What weapon is your armor inventor using?
Probably a one-handed weapon if he's using a shield. Those generally deal less damage than two-handed weapons.
My question was about using weapon + shield instead of a more damaging two-handed weapon.
So... going through this topic again, I'm still intrigued by the idea of a tanking Inventor. I know the Inventor lacks any ability to keep enemies on him, so this is mostly about being able to take a beating. How would you go about building someting like that?
I won't speak about shields, as anyone can grab Shield Block and Bastion Dedication, so the Inventor is not much better than anyone else at using one.
I see 2 ways of building a really tanky Inventor:
- Crazy resistances: You should get a high Fire Resistance through a Ring (for your critical failures to Overdrive and Unstable), so you can take Otherwordly Protection, Metallic Reactance, Dense Plating and Physical Protection. You have resist 10 to most damage types and all Physical damage types. Roughly, normal attacks will deal 2/3 of their damage. If you add Shield Block with a Sturdy Shield, you nearly entirely ignore normal hits (criticals are still a bit hard on you). And you also have quite the resistance against spells and are nearly immune to persistent damage (outside poison) which is a great asset as persistent damage kills.
- Hide in plain sight: Subtle Dampeners + Camouflage Pigmentation. You can, for one action, disappear. Against mooks, you should have great chances of success, against bosses it'll be a bit harder. The action cost is high, but being invisible reduce most types of damage (outside area of effects ones) by 50% (it's equivalent to +5 to AC) and can be extremely efficient against magic.
Those are some amazing points, shroudb. Thank you!
It looks like I will in fact be playing a "sturdy inventor" in an upcoming campaign. We'll have free archetype and can ignore the feat-limitation for our first Dedication. I plan on picking up Bastion at level 2, then switch to Alchemist Dedication at level 4 for some utility elixirs/tools. According to the GM, there'll be plenty of downtime in that campaign, so I plan on being the party crafter.
Using a shield augmentation for maneuvers had crossed my mind. But I was going to use a small ancestry and don't really have space for Titan Wrestler in my build before level 10. Not sure if that isn't too restrictive, being limited to medium targets for half the campaign. But I'm at the very least trained in Athletics anyway and the augmentation is cheap. Might as well bring it along just in case. Or maybe I'll switch up my ancestry.
Searing Restoration might not be a must, but our oracle player was a nearly full-time healer and supporter last campaign. He now wants to set the world on fire (flame mystery), which my inventor supports wholeheartedly. Having some healing on my own is meant to take the heat (get it?) off of him so he doesn't need to heal as often and can focus more on important stuff. Like fire. Still, I will use Explode whenever the opportunity arises. I'm sure he will approve.
That necklace is a great idea! I might need to look for more magic items that have good Interact abilities.
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I've added build examples. I realized when writing it that, unlike the Swashbuckler, there's more freedom in how to build an Inventor. I hope it'll help you.
So, suppose I'm playing a Kobold Inventor with Construct Innovation, he actually belives his construct is part of himself and is the genuine way to achieve dragonhood. What would be a cool non-magical free archetype for this character? Is there one that can pair well with a Kobold engineer?
Dragons are very perceptive. The inventor not so much (doesn't get Expert perception until level 13). I'd probably pick up Canny Acumen for Perception early.
For the archetype, take a look at the Overwatch archetype fro GnG. Has some very good perception based abilities and can get you to Master perception.
One Archetype which is very straightforward is Alchemist Dedication, because you have both the Intelligence and the Crafting proficiency.
Otherwise, I'd certainly choose a Focus Power Archetype, like Blessed One, as you can combine the Focus Spell and Unstable ability to have the equivalent of 2 Focus spells per fight right at level 2.
As dragons are magical creatures, it's also quite logical.
Now, if we look at dragon-themed archetypes, there's not much choice. Draconic Sorcerer is based on Charisma, so not easy for an Inventor. Dragon Barbarian could be nice but you can't Command your Construct while raging.
Dragon Disciple seems the best choice. You can get Dragon Breath at level 8 and that's awesome. The only issue is that the spell DC is nowhere to be found...
I made a pretty cool build that allows for two area/elemental two-action attacks every round.
I can't think of any other class capable of doing that at such low levels (inventor with construct companion and a spellcaster dedication can do it as early as level 2). It's not until high levels with the likes of Quicken Spell or fiery body that other classes can pull this off (and even then, only in a more limited way).
I thought it might be worthth mentioning in your guide if it hasn't been touched on already.
You need to be level 6 for Megavolt. Considering that you need 3 feats to improve your companion, 2 for Mega/Gigavolt and then 4 Dedication feats to be able to cast something else than a cantrip, your build asks for quite a lot of feats, with level 12-15 where you can't take all the feats you want.
On the other hand, Explode+Megavolt works at level 6 without more feats. I'll think about speaking about it.
A lot of feats? You only really need Explode and a cantrip to get it started. That's only One Dedication feat away. Since they both scale, you don't need much else unless you want versatility of area effects or spike damage with bigger spells.
It won't be as damaging as some builds I suppose, but it still does solid damage (a little better than two cantrips a round I'd say) at least once a fight.
But yes, Megavolt makes it even better, because then it becomes truly "at will."
A lot of feats? You only really need Explode and a cantrip to get it started.
Nope, you need Megavolt. Your Construct can't use Explode on its own.
A lot of feats? You only really need Explode and a cantrip to get it started.Nope, you need Megavolt. Your Construct can't use Explode on its own.
Ah, quite right.
So it kills your idea in the egg (expression in my language, I don't know if it exists in english).
Sorry.
It's still a solid build, it just doesn't come online as early as I thought. It functions fully four levels earlier than any other class I'm aware of, and can be used more consistently.
Anyone got any thought on a good Ancestry and Heritage (can be versatile) for a strength-based Weapon + Shield Inventor (Armor Innovation) who is the crafter for the party? I'd prefer to avoid ancestries with a strong magical flavor (Elves, Kobolds, Anadi and similar).
I thought Goblin would be nice for Junk Tinker, but the only other feat I find appealing is Unbreakable-er Goblin which prevents me from getting a versatile heritage to improve my selection of ancetry feats.
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It's still a solid build, it just doesn't come online as early as I thought. It functions fully four levels earlier than any other class I'm aware of, and can be used more consistently.
Sorry, but I don't find it is.
First, at level 6, you can Explode + Megavolt, so it doesn't give anything you can't have by being a normal Construct Inventor.But more importantly, at level 6, you are already constrained by a lack of feats. If you want Megavolt, you have the choice between Basic Spellcasting or Advanced Companion. You'll choose the most efficient so you are only casting cantrips at that time. And because level 8 brings Incredible Companion you have to wait for level 10 to cast anything else than a cantrip. As such, the Strength of the build, which is the choice of spell, is nearly non existent before level 10. At level 12, you are back to feat constraint that can only be solved at level 16. So it's not a solid build to me, it's a weird build with a lack of feat.
Now, if you have a Free Archetype, it becomes way more doable, but I don't want to speak about builds you can only make with an optional rule.
Anyone got any thought on a good Ancestry and Heritage (can be versatile) for a strength-based Weapon + Shield Inventor (Armor Innovation) who is the crafter for the party? I'd prefer to avoid ancestries with a strong magical flavor (Elves, Kobolds, Anadi and similar).
I thought Goblin would be nice for Junk Tinker, but the only other feat I find appealing is Unbreakable-er Goblin which prevents me from getting a versatile heritage to improve my selection of ancetry feats.
The best Ancestry for an Inventor is certainly Android and it's not a magical Ancestry. Beside this one, I haven't found any Ancestry that was strong from a mechanic point of view.
As a side note, Burn It! works fine with Explode, giving a small, but nice, bonus to damage.
The best Ancestry for an Inventor is certainly Android and it's not a magical Ancestry. Beside this one, I haven't found any Ancestry that was strong from a mechanic point of view.
What makes Android is good in your opinion? I don't find too much good stuff looking at it. Proximity Alert is nice. Nanite Shroud is ok, but I'll go Alchemist so I have plenty of Mistform Elixirs for Concealment. The fast healing looks decent, I guess. The ancestry seems solid but overall I'm not super impressed.
And yeah, I aree that it's hard to find a strong mechanical choice.
As a side note, Burn It! works fine with Explode, giving a small, but nice, bonus to damage.
How? Burn It! says it buffs spells and Alchemical items. How does Explode fit into either of those?
...at level 6, you can Explode + Megavolt, so it doesn't give anything you can't have by being a normal Construct Inventor.
A normal inventor can't explode and megavolt every round (maybe only once a combat).
An inventor with this build can megavolt and cast a cantrip every round if they felt so inclined. That's what I've been trying to say is unique about it. Getting two two-action spell-like effects in the same round rarely happens before 10th, and even then isn't reliable. This is.
Your other points are pretty spot on, but since both megavolt and cantrips scale, I don't really think non-cantrips are all that necessary for this build.
As a side note, Burn It! works fine with Explode, giving a small, but nice, bonus to damage.How? Burn It! says it buffs spells and Alchemical items. How does Explode fit into either of those?
I realized after posting I was making a mistake but the boards were all messed up yesterday and I haven't been able to correct it.
As a side note, I think it would not be a crazy houserule, as Unstable abilities are very close to Focus spells in terms of power level.What makes Android is good in your opinion?
The stat bonuses.
As I said, I haven't found anything that was really good for an Inventor. I quite like ancient Elf for the free Dedication but you said no Elf.That's why the Ancestry part of my guide is not much detailed, as I don't find many combo between Inventor and Ancestry feats.
A normal inventor can't explode and megavolt every round (maybe only once a combat).
An inventor with this build can megavolt and cast a cantrip every round if they felt so inclined. That's what I've been trying to say is unique about it. Getting two two-action spell-like effects in the same round rarely happens before 10th, and even then isn't reliable. This is.
Your other points are pretty spot on, but since both megavolt and cantrips scale, I don't really think non-cantrips are all that necessary for this build.
I see what you mean, let me think about it. Right now, I'm not fully convinced as it's really feat constrained and quite convoluted. But I may change my mind.
What makes Android is good in your opinion?The stat bonuses.
As I said, I haven't found anything that was really good for an Inventor. I quite like ancient Elf for the free Dedication but you said no Elf.
That's why the Ancestry part of my guide is not much detailed, as I don't find many combo between Inventor and Ancestry feats.
Ok, that's fair. I'm not too concerned with the ability boosts. As long as I avoid Strength and Intelligence flaws, I can use voluntary flaws to get where I want to be.
I'm currently thinking about Hobgoblin with some Versatile Heritage. Maybe Oread for the double Speciality Crafting. Sylph and Duskwalker would probably be more optimal but I have trouble wrapping my head around a Hobgoblin with either of those Heritages.
I can get Junk Tinker at level 5 via Runt Sage. Junk Tinker isn't amazing but it does save some money every time I craft anything. Seems nice since I plan to do a lot of crafting.
Ah well, good to know I didn't miss anything super amazing about Androids.
Thanks, SuperBidi!
Oh, and also thanks (again?) for the amazing guide. Not sure I said that already but it is well-deserved. Your guide is about 98.5% of the reason why I'm playing this Inventor in this upcoming campaign! :)
Oh, and also thanks (again?) for the amazing guide. Not sure I said that already but it is well-deserved. Your guide is about 98.5% of the reason why I'm playing this Inventor in this upcoming campaign! :)
My pleasure!
It's why I write guides and it's always nice to hear when it helps.Don't hesitate to make a return of experience with what went well and what didn't so I'll update my guide.
I agree with most of your advice. Here are my different opinions.
Impact foam may be underestimated. It doesn't need reaction. And it provide +2AC circumstance. Spellcasters such like Bard can initiate it by a movement to fall. And Bard doesn't use attack rolls. The side effect can be ignored.
Magus is a nice choice of dedication providing cantrips and focus spells. Dimensional assault: you can use one action to choose a perfect place for a strike and Explode. It just need Verbal. So no AoOs!