Iluzry's Guide To The Mystic Theurge

[Minigiant]

Minigiant wrote:

Tsukiyos 2nd evangelist boon 'Collective Vision' (Gained at level 11) is one of the most powerful abilities in the game, and most importantly it scales off of HD. Mystic Theurge's genuinely seem to struggle in the DC department, but by pairing that with Collective Visions and treating it as a one-two punch similar to Witches, in theory should resolve that. In addition it should allow some of the lower level Sorcerer spells to stay relevant.

This doesn't actually work so you can ignore my build entirely

[Kurald Galain]

So, I've been tinkering with Theurges recently, and I came upon an important trick that's not in the handbook yet.

And the trick is action economy. That is, your endurance as a caster depends on how many spell slots you get per day; but your sheer power depends on how many spells you can cast during one combat.

This means three things. First, swift-action spells are golden, because you can cast one of those in addition to a standard spell (this means that every Theurge should seriously consider spells like Dazzling Blade, or find a way to grab the inquisitor's Litany spells). Second, you obviously want Quicken Spell; then again pretty much any full caster wants to quicken.

Third, and here's the surprise: Warpriest makes a surprisingly good Theurge! And that is because of its fervor ability. From very early levels you'll be casting two spells per round (and as a Theurge, you have plenty of slots for that). Sure, you won't be getting 9th level divine spells, but you'll be casting markedly more often than anybody else! So I'd like to submit Warpriest 2 / Empyreal sorcerer 1 / MT 10 as an unexpected sample build.

[RNGucifer]

One trick I didn’t see that is slightly less cheesy is the arcane discovery “faith magic”. With faith magic, a single class wizard/arcanist can enter MT. You still want a level in a divine class to advance but it frees up some levels

[IluzryMage]

So mentioned this before, the main reason I didn't mention this trick is because it isn't REALLY early access. You can get 3/3 by the same time you can pick up faith magic and by that point mystic theurge isnt NEARLY as powerful.

[RNGucifer]

IluzryMage wrote:

So mentioned this before, the main reason I didn't mention this trick is because it isn't REALLY early access. You can get 3/3 by the same time you can pick up faith magic and by that point mystic theurge isnt NEARLY as powerful.

Not early access but it helps minimize losing caster levels and develop some class abilities without taking any feats other than the bonus feat they give you. It also keeps your spell level roughly on pace with a spontaneous caster. Wiz 5/divine 1/MT 4/Evangelist 10 gets you CL 18 wizard (which magical knack can fix) and 14 in your divine class of choice

[IluzryMage]

Well to get a 2nd level spell with Faith Magic, youd need to be Wiz 7. If you are getting a 1st level Divine spell, you might as well just do Wiz 2/Cl 1.

[RNGucifer]

IluzryMage wrote:

Well to get a 2nd level spell with Faith Magic, youd need to be Wiz 7. If you are getting a 1st level Divine spell, you might as well just do Wiz 2/Cl 1.

You only need 5 wizard. You choose a first level domain spell and you prepare it as a second level divine spell. Like I said, not early access, just less cheesy and less clunky than most other methods

[PFRPGrognard]

Nice work on the guide. Thanks for sharing your work.