Can a Multiclass Gunslinger gain Spellshot class archetype?


Rules Discussion


If I get a Gunslinger multiclass archetype, do I meet the prerequisites "You must be a gunslinger" of Spellshot?

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

No because "You can select a class archetype only if your class meets the criteria listed in the archetype's prerequisites." And if you have the Gunslinger MC Dedication, it means your class is not Gunslinger which is the prerequisite for Spellshot.


Actually, when multiclassed you count as being part of the class. But Spellshot is an archetype, so you can only take it if you are a Gunslinger.


It doesn't look like there is anything general to Class Archetype that would prevent a multiclass archetype from taking one.

The problem is not the requirements of the Spellshot class archetype. If you have Gunslinger dedication, then you are a Gunslinger, and you have a 'way'.

The problem is the requirement that you take the class archetype's dedication feat at level 2 if the class archetype has effects at level 1. You can't take the class archetype's dedication at level 2 if you take the multiclass dedication feat at level 2 instead. There may be future class archetypes printed that don't have 1st level effects, and so it wouldn't be a requirement to take the class archetype's dedication feat at level 2.

Though I would more expect that those would be a chained archetype like Hellknight Signifier or Gray Gardener. Which each have a requirement of having already taken a different archetype.

Now, that being said, there may be room in things like Free Archetype variant rules or other houserules that can allow this to work. I don't see anything fundamentally broken in allowing the interaction and letting a multiclass Gunslinger to have the Way of the Spellshot.


The only way that could be possible is by getting a Free Archetype and playing an Ancient Elf. In my opinion, it's not an expected interaction.
I haven't read the archetype. If a GM is ok with allowing it, that's fine. But I wouldn't count on it, as some GMs (and I'm part of these GMs) would certainly refuse it.

There's design space for archetyping through multiclass dedication, but currently there's no archetype available allowing that.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
SuperBidi wrote:
Actually, when multiclassed you count as being part of the class. But Spellshot is an archetype, so you can only take it if you are a Gunslinger.

Where does it say this? I looked through all the archetype rules and I can't find it.

Liberty's Edge

I do not think getting a given class MC Dedication feat makes you count as having the class itself.

Especially because of this part of the description of multiclass archetypes :

Multiclass Archetypes
Source Core Rulebook pg. 219 2.0
Archetypes with the multiclass trait represent diversifying your training into another class’s specialties. You can’t select a multiclass archetype’s dedication feat if you are a member of the class of the same name (for instance, a fighter can’t select the Fighter Dedication feat).


Kelseus wrote:
SuperBidi wrote:
Actually, when multiclassed you count as being part of the class. But Spellshot is an archetype, so you can only take it if you are a Gunslinger.
Where does it say this? I looked through all the archetype rules and I can't find it.

I must admit I don't know, I read that here. Can a multiclassed Paladin use a Holy Avenger? In my opinion, it should. But maybe it's an open question.


SuperBidi wrote:
I must admit I don't know

Yeah, I thought it was in the rules for Multiclass Archetypes. But I didn't actually see it there when I looked.

So a Sorcerer can't take Sorcerer Dedication to get a second bloodline, but a Swashbuckler can take Sorcerer Dedication multiple times and get multiple bloodlines because taking Sorcerer Dedication doesn't actually make them a Sorcerer. Cool.


And while you couldn't take Sorcerer Dedication again until you get two other feats from the Sorcerer Archetype, once you have Basic Sorcerer Spellcasting and Basic Bloodline Spell, you can take as many Sorcerer Dedication feats as you want since you now meet the 'at least 3 feats' rule. You will at least get the focus spell for all of them since Basic Basic Bloodline Spell would apply to all of the Sorcerer Dedication feats that you have. Not sure about the spell slots from Basic Bloodline Spell though. But it would be somewhat broken if you only had spell slots from one of the bloodlines that you couldn't fill with spells from a different casting tradition.

Liberty's Edge

4 people marked this as a favorite.

You generally can't take a feat twice unless it says otherwise, so no, you couldn't just keep stacking on sorcerer dedications.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
The Raven Black wrote:

I do not think getting a given class MC Dedication feat makes you count as having the class itself.

Especially because of this part of the description of multiclass archetypes :

Multiclass Archetypes
Source Core Rulebook pg. 219 2.0
Archetypes with the multiclass trait represent diversifying your training into another class’s specialties. You can’t select a multiclass archetype’s dedication feat if you are a member of the class of the same name (for instance, a fighter can’t select the Fighter Dedication feat).

I don't think this quote proves your point. At the time you took the dedication feat, you were not (yet) a member of that class. Whether the multiclass dedication feat itself enables you to qualify as a member of the class later is not settled by this text.

In fact, that interpretation would bar you from using other multiclassing feats to qualify for that class's class feats, as they all have that class as a keyword and thus an implicit prerequisite. Those feats put you in a strange limbo between not being a member of the class (as you cannot take the class feats directly but only via other multiclassing feats) and being a member of the class (as you are not excused from any prerequisites for the class feats).

Liberty's Edge

"Once you have the dedication feat, you can select any feat from that archetype in place of a class feat as long as you meet its prerequisites."

The feats from the archetypes do not mention any class prerequisite nor tag. They can grant you class feats that have the class tag, but the class tag in the feat is not an implicit prerequisite. In fact there are no such things as implicit prerequisites.

The class tag in the feat (say Alchemist) means "This indicates abilities from the alchemist class."

Horizon Hunters

1 person marked this as a favorite.

In the rules for Class Archetypes:

Class Archetypes wrote:
It might be possible to take a class archetype at 1st level if it alters or replaces some of the class's initial class features. The 1st-level ability is presented much like a class feature and includes the class archetype's prerequisites and rules on how it changes your class. If you select this ability, you must take that archetype's dedication feat at 2nd level, and you proceed normally afterward. You can never have more than one class archetype.

Spellshot forces you to take the Way of the Spellshot at level 1. It doesn't change any choices you already made, it forces a choice, thus you can't take it after making a choice that doesn't match the archetype.

If you were an Ancient Elf with Gunslinger Dedication, you still wouldn't be able to take this Archetype as you would be blocked by the Special requirement of Gunslinger Dedication preventing you from taking Spellshot Dedication at level 2.

So no. You 100% must be a Gunslinger to take the Spellshot Archetype.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Second Edition / Rules Discussion / Can a Multiclass Gunslinger gain Spellshot class archetype? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.